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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I managed to tear the line going over the engine bay crossmember while pulling the engine/trans out. It's a LONG line going to the rear brakes, so replacing the whole thing is ludicrous. I used double flare fittings when installing my line-lock, so why can't I do the same with this line? What about compression fittings?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
i had a compression fitting on the brake line that runs under the oil pan for 8 years. No problems. Done the repair on numerous customers cars no problems ever. Just take the line to NAPA or car quest and get the rigt size ceompression fitting and splice baby splice.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Mike, if you are talking about the line across the engine crossmember, it only goes from the ABS unit to the front wheel.
If the engine were out it would be totally replaceable.

If you choose to splice for whatever reason may I recommend using legal, safe, 45 degree inverted flares.
Just because someone used compression fittings and “got away with it” doesn’t make it safe, correct, or legal.
The acid test for a substandard brake line repair will come at the most inopportune time.
Bad enough to do it to your own car but to recommend it and to do it to customers cars is ,,, well ,, I’m not going to get in to it.

Replace or correctly splice is my opinion.
Gerry Charlesworth
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by Dustman:
i had a compression fitting on the brake line that runs under the oil pan for 8 years. No problems. Done the repair on numerous customers cars no problems ever. Just take the line to NAPA or car quest and get the rigt size ceompression fitting and splice baby splice.
Dude, Shane...thats illegal...I hope you tell people when you do that to their cars...and I hope you told the guy you sold your Impala to as well...unless you replaced the entire line.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by tenor39 It's all about the 'O':
I used double flare fittings when installing my line-lock, so why can't I do the same with this line?
As long as your definition of double flared is the same as the inverted 45 that Gerry is talking about, then you know how to do it correctly, so just do that...is the engine still out?

Another alternative is to buy the Classic Tube hard line kit for the entire car. They have the kit in tradition steel and Stainless steel. I ordered my stainless kit a WHILE ago, and it took them some time to make, but I should have it in a day or 2, and I've already seen the same kit on a friends car and it's of awesome quality. I think it just took so long for mine because they didn't have any in stock, so they actually had to go and cut/bend/flare all of the lines for me...plus stainless lines are HARD to flare properly, much harder than typical steel lines.

The regular kit costs 199 and the stainless one is 225...not a bad price at all. Part number for both is IB1049, you have to specify material...AND all of the lines are available seperately...so you can just buy the one you need if you want to.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I always price up whole line replacement versus repair.

This is something ive never seen cause a problem in probalby 100 + cars repaired at various shops ive worked at. And ive never seen and dont see anywhere in the NC DMV inspection book about it being illegal or causeing me to fail a car for a safety inspection.

No i didnt tell the guy who bought my car because

1 i did it 8 years ago and didnt think about it and

2 it isnt a safety hazard in my professional opinion.

Now if the lines are corroded or rusty OK but in my case the headers burned a pin hole in the line and i ran a new line from the ABS brain to right under the oil pan.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by Dustman:
I always price up whole line replacement versus repair.

This is something ive never seen cause a problem in probalby 100 + cars repaired at various shops ive worked at. And ive never seen and dont see anywhere in the NC DMV inspection book about it being illegal or causeing me to fail a car for a safety inspection.

No i didnt tell the guy who bought my car because

1 i did it 8 years ago and didnt think about it and

2 it isnt a safety hazard in my professional opinion.

Now if the lines are corroded or rusty OK but in my case the headers burned a pin hole in the line and i ran a new line from the ABS brain to right under the oil pan.
Interesting.
Here, use of a use of a compression fitting on the brakes is an instant "out of service"
Which I have been backed up on by area inspectors during government inspections which I am licensed to do.

You are saying you have done, or been party to 100 + installations of compression fittings to repair brake lines??
Holy Crap!!

I don't have US Government Regs here but am willing to bet they are the same as here as we pretty much follow the US in this type of spec.
I am sure someone will come up with the regs that pertain to it in the US.

it isnt a safety hazard in my professional opinion
Just wanted to save that so it didn't get lost.

I am not trying to pick a fight but feel strongly you are giving bad advice here.
Regards, Gerry Charlesworth
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If the use of those compression fittings is illegal and/or unsafe, why do NAPA and other automotive parts places sell them?
I haven't used one in a long time... but I do remember using them as a kid while replacing brake lines with my dad's help. I also have a nice flare tool now, so I find that just as easy to use so I have no need for the compression parts.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by 95wagon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dustman:
I always price up whole line replacement versus repair.

This is something ive never seen cause a problem in probalby 100 + cars repaired at various shops ive worked at. And ive never seen and dont see anywhere in the NC DMV inspection book about it being illegal or causeing me to fail a car for a safety inspection.

No i didnt tell the guy who bought my car because

1 i did it 8 years ago and didnt think about it and

2 it isnt a safety hazard in my professional opinion.

Now if the lines are corroded or rusty OK but in my case the headers burned a pin hole in the line and i ran a new line from the ABS brain to right under the oil pan.
Interesting.
Here, use of a use of a compression fitting on the brakes is an instant "out of service"
Which I have been backed up on by area inspectors during government inspections which I am licensed to do.

You are saying you have done, or been party to 100 + installations of compression fittings to repair brake lines??
Holy Crap!!

I don't have US Government Regs here but am willing to bet they are the same as here as we pretty much follow the US in this type of spec.
I am sure someone will come up with the regs that pertain to it in the US.

it isnt a safety hazard in my professional opinion
Just wanted to save that so it didn't get lost.

I am not trying to pick a fight but feel strongly you are giving bad advice here.
Regards, Gerry Charlesworth
</font>[/QUOTE]Exactly! And honestly, why NOT do the double flare? It takes what, another 10 minutes? and takes it from a complete "WTF" to a job well done?? Don't get me wrong, I use them off-and-on on things like power steering lines, or trans cooler lines or something, but not on something life critical like brakes...

In my "professional opinion"... as an honest-to-God Engineer... DO NOT USE COMPRESSION FITTINGS ON BRAKE LINES!

Honestly, you put good brake pads/rotors/soft lines/fluid and good rubber on your car to get stopped in case of an emergency, then rely on a BRASS compression fitting to not kill you... It's one thing to do it to your own car, but to a bunch of other people's cars who have trusted you to keep them and their families safe? VERY, VERY NOT COOL!

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by Rustic:
If the use of those compression fittings is illegal and/or unsafe, why do NAPA and other automotive parts places sell them?
I haven't used one in a long time... but I do remember using them as a kid while replacing brake lines with my dad's help. I also have a nice flare tool now, so I find that just as easy to use so I have no need for the compression parts.
They carry them for other types of the same size lines...

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by Rustic:
If the use of those compression fittings is illegal and/or unsafe, why do NAPA and other automotive parts places sell them?
They also sell copper tubing, vacuum hose, vinyl hose, barbed fittings and hose clamps.
Does that make them legal too?

Note to self, don't bother.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think what we're faced with here in the US is a lack of strictly-enforced vehicle inspection programs and standards at the state level--there are a few, but nothing like in other countries. A lack of public will to do what is best, regardless of any existence of standards (or lack thereof), further contributes to the problem. I need to add that I'm not directing this comment toward anyone in particular, nor do I mean with regard to brake systems only. There are many things that fall into a similar category--it could be windshield condition, tire tread, headlights, seat belts, and MANY more areas that a proper inspection for "certifying" a SAFE vehicle all must be considered.

The Feds do set standards for manufacturers, but in the breadth and size of the country, with individual states having a wide range of populations (people and vehicles), and widely divergent policies regarding intrusion into the private citizen's life, including vehicle ownership, the cost of having some sort of government-imposed and administered inspection program for anything other than large trucks (DOT and ICC regs dictate it, I believe, and require the states to administer it) has taken a back seat to expediency, convenience, and a low threshhold for constructive use of individual owners' time for such inspections, not to mention the added financial burden. Maybe that's what is needed to slow the growth of the vehicle population....

Once a vehicle leaves the manufacturer, alot of things change as far as responsibility, whether it's "right" or not.

I also think the gamble here in the US is that "regular maintenance" will result in fairly low odds of any sort of incident, life-threatening or otherwise, that is directly attributable to a failure such as a repaired brake line, as much as many of us may not like it. Anything that does fail or cause a problem is going to litigation by ambulance-chasing lawyers anyway, since the normal modus operandi here now seems to be that anything that happens is always someone else's fault.

I know I've commented in Forum on brake line repairs before, but whether it's Shane or anyone else isn't the point. It does matter to some of us, and I personally would not make the repair to a damaged line as Mike inquired about--I would replace it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just went over the NC DMV Inspection handbook and it says nothing about repaired lines. Just as long as there are no leaks.

I was trained by older techs when i was starting. This is how i was trained. This is how all shops around here do it. Thus my apparent ignorance on the matter. I have never seen or heard of a failed compression fitting repair here in the south ever.

I am not an engineer. I am an "in the field tech" And yes i am a licensed Inspector and own an inspection station. So i can only go by what i see. And from what i have seen if the need arises and line replacement is cost or labor prohibitive at my 75 an hr rate then i will continue to repair lines.

However as said its not "illegal here" and im not arguing that replacing the line is better.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Originally posted by Dustman:
as said its not "illegal here" and im not arguing that replacing the line is better.
Shane, it's not in the state books because it's a US DOT regulation backed by SAE standards, not a state by state regulation...it's illegal EVERYWHERE in the United States, and probably in most other countries too. I'm not trying to pick a fight (but I'm an engineer too...not for a long time, but maybe that means the math and the numbers are fresh in my mind), and it's really not safe to use a compression fitting on the brakes. Hasn't caused a problem yet, but that one time, when someone wrecks and hurts or kills themself or someone else, and it's a car you worked on, with a compression fitting in the brake lines...you won't have the same professional opinion at all.

I'm with Gerry on this one though...why bother?

Just make sure you guys with compression fittings in your brake lines are in front of me when we caravan anywhere...I don't want to get rearended because of a brake line failure.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, I sure didn't mean to start an argument. ;) I've seen compression fittings made out of aluminum and stainless. Do they make flare end splices? I'll probably replace the line, as it only goes to the passenger side caliper. I guess I'll call Classic Tube to see if I can get just that line. BTW, almost every line-lock kit I've seen uses brass flare to 1/8" NPT for hookup.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally posted by tenor39:
Well, I sure didn't mean to start an argument. ;) I've seen compression fittings made out of aluminum and stainless. Do they make flare end splices? I'll probably replace the line, as it only goes to the passenger side caliper. I guess I'll call Classic Tube to see if I can get just that line. BTW, almost every line-lock kit I've seen uses brass flare to 1/8" NPT for hookup.
IMO, a brass flare fitting is OK for something I drive, but I'd be hard pressed to not just replace the line on my wife's car...

They do make flare end splices... you buy the piece of line and it'll have flares on both ends and flare nuts on it for each end... Then you just buy the flare "union" I guess it's called, cut one end and re-flare, and put it in place with unions and flares on each side... The biggest PITA about the whole deal is making flares on each side that's connected to the car still...

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I just called Classic Tube and ordered the line. $35 and really helpful service! I wish I could find a better flare to 1/8" NPT for my line-lock. Steel would be the best.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Originally posted by tenor39:
I just called Classic Tube and ordered the line. $35 and really helpful service! I wish I could find a better flare to 1/8" NPT for my line-lock. Steel would be the best.
Yeah, I'm not happy about the stuff going into my linelock or my proportioning valve (and I haven't installed either one yet because of that)...but classic tube really is great. I'm glad you called them, they're friendly people.

I'll post here if I find anything better for the line lock or the proportioning valve (I'm putting in a wilwood because I don't like the poor performance of the stock one, even with the stealth bolt and combi valve mod.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
How ironic is it that I just went to drive home from work and had my brakes blow out? A hard line or the 5th line gave up, I can't tell because everything is soaking wet from rain anyways, all I know is it's something to the rears (front of the master cylinder is empty). Good thing the UPS guy left me a delivery notice on my door about my classic tube kit, and my earls lines are sitting in a box on the floor...I'll get a ride over to UPS and get the package and come back here and start installing in the rain...can't have a car without brakes.

I got lucky and it happened pulling out of the parking space, and I live within a mile (I know it's bad for the car to drive short trips like that, I only do it when it's raining like it is today), so I drove home VERY CAREFULLY in first gear (gotta love a stick shift and LOADS of compression braking with my tuned DFCO and closed TPS spark advance)...

Can't wait to cut those lines and do some proper double flares and get the car setup with a line lock and adjustable proportioning valve, stainless hard lines and all 5 stainless flex lines...
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm a few hours late to the show, but add me to the list of people who'd put compression fittings on brake lines in the "I'm an idiot" column.

I used all 37 degree AN fittings on the latest car I ran brake lines on, and I think they'll be my choice of fitting from here on out. Yeah, they're more expensive, but I found them easier to use and they look better, too.
 
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