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·What is the general consensus of people who have upgraded to the braided brake lines.
Was it worth it? Could you feel or measure any improvement?
Was it worth it? Could you feel or measure any improvement?
Stainless Steel Braided brake lines?
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·Oh yes definite difference. I got new rotors, calipers, H brackets, stainless steel hoses, and did the stealth bolt mod for my Impala. A significant difference indeed. The powder coating gave everything a little extra flare.
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·I haven't priced OE rubber hoses lately to compare to the cost of a braided stainless kit. It would not surprise me to find them very close in overall cost.
As far as being able to feel it, if the rubber hoses are in good condition and brakes are well bled, I think it will be difficult to tell the difference.
I look at it this way--there are LOTS of cars out there with the OE hoses, and if there was any value to changing....well, I hope you see what I mean.
In a blind test--lets say with 3 cars, all with identical brake systems, with the exception of one having stainless braided hoses, I really think 10 different drivers would have little success in trying to tell from braking "feel" which hoses are on which car if they drove all 3 and selected one they thought has the braided hoses--the numbers probably would not prove to show much, if any, significantly detectable difference--over a pre-determined course with specific stopping points, speed variations, etc. I think it would make for an interesting test.
I'm not skeptical of whether stainless braided hoses work, but I remain less than totally convinced how much difference they REALLY make.
I'll agree that they are no less suitable than OE rubber hoses, so don't let my comments stop you from using what you prefer, whether from the standpoint of looks, cost, or any other criteria.
In the case above, I understand DF is certain of the hoses being an important part of the brake system renewal, but with so many things changed at once, it's really difficult to tell if the hoses had such a major impact--it would be necessary to change BACK to rubber, check the "feel", then back to braided again--an A-B-A test--to get toward any proof about the hoses. But they look nicer than rubber, no question, and as I already said once, they're no less good than OE hoses.
[ 04-09-2007, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Navy Lifer ]
As far as being able to feel it, if the rubber hoses are in good condition and brakes are well bled, I think it will be difficult to tell the difference.
I look at it this way--there are LOTS of cars out there with the OE hoses, and if there was any value to changing....well, I hope you see what I mean.
In a blind test--lets say with 3 cars, all with identical brake systems, with the exception of one having stainless braided hoses, I really think 10 different drivers would have little success in trying to tell from braking "feel" which hoses are on which car if they drove all 3 and selected one they thought has the braided hoses--the numbers probably would not prove to show much, if any, significantly detectable difference--over a pre-determined course with specific stopping points, speed variations, etc. I think it would make for an interesting test.
I'm not skeptical of whether stainless braided hoses work, but I remain less than totally convinced how much difference they REALLY make.
I'll agree that they are no less suitable than OE rubber hoses, so don't let my comments stop you from using what you prefer, whether from the standpoint of looks, cost, or any other criteria.
In the case above, I understand DF is certain of the hoses being an important part of the brake system renewal, but with so many things changed at once, it's really difficult to tell if the hoses had such a major impact--it would be necessary to change BACK to rubber, check the "feel", then back to braided again--an A-B-A test--to get toward any proof about the hoses. But they look nicer than rubber, no question, and as I already said once, they're no less good than OE hoses.
[ 04-09-2007, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Navy Lifer ]
G
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·Doesn't it stand to reason that stainless steel hoses will expand less than rubber hoses under brake pressure?
I will say that there was a night and day difference between my old brake set up and the new one.
I would do it again. Thanks.
I will say that there was a night and day difference between my old brake set up and the new one.
I would do it again. Thanks.
G
Guest
·Dropped, it was the right thing to do for your project and it turned out well for you. I don't have any data to prove one way or the other, I'll admit--just a hunch more than anything else--all I want to be understood is that so many things were changed on your brake system at the same time, that it's not possible to attribute what the pedal feels like now strictly to the new hoses, since what it felt like before the work was done was going to change based on a number of things you did, in all likelihood. What was the condition of the brake components you replaced?
G
Guest
·The reasons I am looking at them is:
1. They claim shorter stopping distances. I would hope it is legit not just guestimates. 18 feet shorter is notable, and the difference between and an accident where you slam someone pretty hard and none at all.
2. I have to replace one anyway. I just found a line bulging. It has to go, now. I have held the line when I have had someone pump up the brakes, it is amazing how much it expands.
3. Costs are a little higher with SSB, but not too much more IF I can get them without the rear lines, as I can't use them as I have a Fleetwood with the 4 channel ABS.
1. They claim shorter stopping distances. I would hope it is legit not just guestimates. 18 feet shorter is notable, and the difference between and an accident where you slam someone pretty hard and none at all.
2. I have to replace one anyway. I just found a line bulging. It has to go, now. I have held the line when I have had someone pump up the brakes, it is amazing how much it expands.
3. Costs are a little higher with SSB, but not too much more IF I can get them without the rear lines, as I can't use them as I have a Fleetwood with the 4 channel ABS.
G
Guest
·Someons is claiming 18 ft shorter with just the hose change?...I would call BS. on that one.
Why would having ABS keep you from doing the rear hoses?
If you have a bulge in one then I would think they are all due for replacement...Just my .02 cents worth.
Why would having ABS keep you from doing the rear hoses?
If you have a bulge in one then I would think they are all due for replacement...Just my .02 cents worth.
G
Guest
·I have braided lines now. When I compared the price of OEM lines to the Earl's kit, the OEM was actually more expensive. By the way, I didn't need them, I bought them because I bought into the hype that they would function better.
As for functional difference. As Navy Lifer already mentioned, you won't notice any. That is assuming your rubber lines are in good condition. The real benefit to the braided lines is in durability. You'll almost never have to worry about the rubber line breaking down and allowing the fluid to push against softer spots, which would happen to old rubber lines. If you compare the braided lines to 12+ year old original rubber lines, then you'll more than likely feel that their is a big improvement. But then, that is like comparing new pads and rotors to 25,000-50,000 miled pads and rotors.
[ 04-09-2007, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Raxstone ]
As for functional difference. As Navy Lifer already mentioned, you won't notice any. That is assuming your rubber lines are in good condition. The real benefit to the braided lines is in durability. You'll almost never have to worry about the rubber line breaking down and allowing the fluid to push against softer spots, which would happen to old rubber lines. If you compare the braided lines to 12+ year old original rubber lines, then you'll more than likely feel that their is a big improvement. But then, that is like comparing new pads and rotors to 25,000-50,000 miled pads and rotors.
[ 04-09-2007, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Raxstone ]
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·Earl's performace claims
18 feet at 80 mph (which is 117 FPS) = 0.15 sec, which is well within the margin of error for reaction time to braking application at a fixed test measurement point at that speed--a car length, in other words, at 80 MPH, the car travels at least twice that far in the blink of an eye, with the normal blink ranging from 0.3 to 0.4 seconds in length.
Stainless hoses aren't magic, but they don't hurt anything...
18 feet at 80 mph (which is 117 FPS) = 0.15 sec, which is well within the margin of error for reaction time to braking application at a fixed test measurement point at that speed--a car length, in other words, at 80 MPH, the car travels at least twice that far in the blink of an eye, with the normal blink ranging from 0.3 to 0.4 seconds in length.
Stainless hoses aren't magic, but they don't hurt anything...
G
Guest
·You make a valid point. In light of the fact that I replaced several things at once, it would be difficult to state and pinpoint exactly how much was gained. The condition of my system was fair to average. Nothing was leaking hoses. The overall condition of the rubber hoses was decent. No bulges, cracks etc.. Thanks.
G
Guest
·I would guess doing 'The Brake Bolt Mod' had the most effect on improved feel?
G
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·FWIW, most of the improvement you may notice will come from the fact that you are replacing TEN YEAR OLD rubber lines with stainless. I had to replace hoses on a 13-year-old GM car a few years back because they had some cracks on the outside, and even just new stock hoses allowed me to lock up the brakes, whereas I was unable to do it before. Stock hoses get soft over time.
G
Guest
·http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+304240&D=304240
"Earl's Performance Hyperfirm Brake Line KitsHigh performance stopping power for the street.
At 80 mph, Earl's says that their Hyperfirm brake line kits reduce stopping distance by as much as 18 ft. As if that weren't a good enough reason to use Hyperfirm brake lines, they also give you a firmer pedal feel and reduce brake pulsation. The Teflon®/stainless steel hose used in these assemblies is pressure-tested at 4,000 psi and is DOT-approved. More than that, though, each brake line set is individually inspected and tested before Earl's ships it."
"Earl's Performance Hyperfirm Brake Line KitsHigh performance stopping power for the street.
At 80 mph, Earl's says that their Hyperfirm brake line kits reduce stopping distance by as much as 18 ft. As if that weren't a good enough reason to use Hyperfirm brake lines, they also give you a firmer pedal feel and reduce brake pulsation. The Teflon®/stainless steel hose used in these assemblies is pressure-tested at 4,000 psi and is DOT-approved. More than that, though, each brake line set is individually inspected and tested before Earl's ships it."
G
Guest
·As Bill alluded to earlier; new vs new.....you won't see any substantial difference in the performance of rubber vs steel lines.
But five years down the line, you're likely to have a substantial difference as the rubber lines loose their elasticity or develope weak spots. That's why guys who swap out 8 or 9 or 10 year-old rubbers lines see such a big difference!
Steel lines show their worth over a period of time......
KW
[ 04-10-2007, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: KW Baraka ]
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·I didn't see these remarks earlier
KW
G
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·Once more on this...
It may not apply much to the regular visitors to Forum who take a greater interest in the care & feeding of these cars, but...a couple of years ago, when Gerry Massie was doing the Tech Editor job for the ISSCA magazine, we were brainstorming some ideas, and one that I wanted to see was a list of "perishable" parts that should be replaced on these cars, which are now over 10 years old--and without consideration for mileage. Some things do naturally deteriorate over time--the list was long, but one that needs to be considered very seriously is replacing the brake hoses if they are still the original production parts. But that's preaching to the choir in this case, and especially in this thread.
No point in posting the other age-related items here, but the topic of what should be replaced at this point in the life of these vehicles would be very interesting, I think. A thread probably already exists somewhere, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm in it!
It may not apply much to the regular visitors to Forum who take a greater interest in the care & feeding of these cars, but...a couple of years ago, when Gerry Massie was doing the Tech Editor job for the ISSCA magazine, we were brainstorming some ideas, and one that I wanted to see was a list of "perishable" parts that should be replaced on these cars, which are now over 10 years old--and without consideration for mileage. Some things do naturally deteriorate over time--the list was long, but one that needs to be considered very seriously is replacing the brake hoses if they are still the original production parts. But that's preaching to the choir in this case, and especially in this thread.
No point in posting the other age-related items here, but the topic of what should be replaced at this point in the life of these vehicles would be very interesting, I think. A thread probably already exists somewhere, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm in it!
G
Guest
·I had a sticking caliper, decided to upgrade the whole braking system. new everything. i changed the pads, calipers, and rotors. the braking was much better. a week later i did the stealth bolt. there was a noticable difference after that, it felt like it lost some weight. reminded me of my 01 nissan maxima. another week later I decided to do the braided lines. I felt absolutely no difference in stoppage or brake pedal. I dont regret because it still looks nice 
but my advice is to do the stealth bolt if you have the 4-wheel disc brakes more than anything else.
but my advice is to do the stealth bolt if you have the 4-wheel disc brakes more than anything else.G
Guest
·http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EAR%2D28A140ERL&N=700+304240+115&autoview=sku
this said "sold as kit" which means what? i need the 2 front,one from frame to rearend,2 for the rear caliprs. does that make the kit ?
this said "sold as kit" which means what? i need the 2 front,one from frame to rearend,2 for the rear caliprs. does that make the kit ?
G
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·Hard to tell from that. Earl's makes both a 4 line kit and a 5 line kit. I only have the 4 line kit on mine, 5th line is still OEM.
G
Guest
·You can get just the 3 hoses from both Goodridge and Techna-Fit , I am pretty confident.
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