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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want my wifes 96 Wagon to have the steering response of my 96 Impala. I know the steering boxes have different part numbers and RPO codes, but does anyone actually know what the lock to lock ratios are? Ive looked in the FSM and did a search.

Thanks,
 

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Bud,

Power steering is only listed as N40 for Chevys, regardless of the gear used.

You may want to put the front end in the air, pull the wheels, and check the travel without the tires hitting the sway bar first to get an accurate check.

I'm not sure if the steering stops on the lower control arms will contact first, or if the internal stop(s) in the gear itself limit travel ultimately. I do think the stops on the control arms are there to add another "layer" of protection for the gear internals.

The production wagon steering gear is "variable rate", slow at center--between 15 to 16.5:1 depending on the application, according to Tom Lee--and gets faster off of center, to about 13:1 near lock.

The SS gear is 12.7 linear--same rate of input/output (pitman shaft rotation) for the full travel (lock to lock).

The wagon has a total travel (turns of the wheel) of between 3 and 3.5 turns, as installed. With no restrictions to travel, the input (ie. steering wheel) would be roughly 3.5 turns.

The SS gear has a total travel of between 2.5 and 3 turns, as installed. With no restriction to travel, the input (ie. steering wheel) would probably be between 3 and 3.25 turns.

Total rotation of the gear is listed as about 43 degrees for the B-body, which is "roughly" 1/8 of a turn--that is the maximum angle each direction off of center that the pitman arm and linkage will travel (I believe), so, if you multiply each "advertised" ratio by ~0.25 (1/4 turn--43 deg + 43 deg=86 deg), you come up with similar numbers--again, these numbers will not take into account the customized nature of the steering gear by the OEM for the specific application, both through internal stops and the specific vehicle steering system travel and mechanical stops on the steering system & suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Guys. That's why I love this group. If only Scott can get the lost posts back. That rear disc setup may be in the wagons future Bill.

Thanks,
 

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Hmmmm, before the great crash of '09, there was a bunch of info on this issue. Too much actually. This was one of those topics where search was more hassle than it was worth. Having said that, I was led to believe that all of the B bodies had the same 12.7:1 ratio and the primary difference was in the amount of effort required to turn the wheel. I bought a GTA steering box to gain better road feel but haven't rushed to install it because after I did the suspension, road feel increased and a lot of the sloppiness went away. The bottom line for me is, if the GTA steering box that I have gathering dust in the garage has a quicker ratio, then i'll be changing my steering box and installing my Jeep steering shaft sooner than later.
 

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I'm not positive about this but I think the Jeep Grand Cherokees from the 90's had a 12.x:1 ratio and would bolt in to our cars.
 

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For that is the million dollar question. Anybody want to use a lifeline on this? phone a friend? ask an expert? 50/50? or ask the audience?

I keep seeing this question asked, and I have asked it before and it seems there is no real consensus on what steering boxes came in what, can they be used in our cars and what the gear ratio is. The only sure source of the delphi 600/670 gearbox with 12:1 ratio is buying it new for $400-$500. I have yet to see any information on what cars/trucks came with the box we are looking for. - Peter

Can anyone confirm this?

What delphi box would this be? 600? 670?
 

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Well I know for a fact 99+ Grand Cherokees wont work from looking at the pics.

I've spent the last couple hours looking, but I really havent found anything solid. I've looked at Crown Vic, and 98 to older Jeep Cherokees and GC.

Jeeps XJ and YJs look like they will work, but I have no proof they are any better.

And to top it off, Cherokee guys have been known to upgrade to the 99ish Durango steering boxes...
 

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Thank you, Sir :)

I had read all of them other than the ratio spreadsheet.

Doesnt however, unless I'm missing it, answer my question about the YJ being an upgrade or not :)

And a little more poking around, I found that the Durango is sought after in the off-roading world due to ?larger piston? and makes turning with large tires easier.
 

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I'm not familiar with Jeep XJ or YJ designations, or what years they were built. I'm not sure I understand what your quest is in pursuing this--to what end?

The Team Chevelle information has been posted for quite a long time--since 2002.

You can contact Jim Shea directly, but I don't know if he will have an answer that is helpful. He's retired from Saginaw/Delphi at this point, and if he's still involved in car stuff, he should be able to tell you something.

E-mail the author (Jim Shea): [email protected]

Gerry (95wagon on Forum) knows a good bit about this, but short of that, I suggest you contact Tom Lee at Lee Manufacturing. He should be able to clarify what will or won't work.
 

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I'm not familiar with Jeep XJ or YJ designations, or what years they were built. I'm not sure I understand what your quest is in pursuing this--to what end?
Well my steering box has 150,000 miles and would like to take advantage of my complete new suspension.

My quest is to find an upgrade for many of us that doesnt break the bank and requires minimal modifications to work...
 

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OK, I just wanted to understand...so I guess that means you define "breaking the bank" as acquisition of a new 670 unit or a professional rebuild by Lee or another reputable source?

I'm not trying to argue the point--but, what did you spend on your complete suspension rebuild, relatively speaking? Not in dollars, per se, but compared to other areas of the car, and relative to the cost of a new steering gear?

The 670 gear is all-new--the only choice available now if NEW is the preference--and it does offer some advantages that have already been discussed. The Jeep "option" is out there, but like all of the other options, you're either looking at pulling an unknown gear off of a wreck OR purchasing a remanufactured unit that may or may not be worth what you pay for it.

That brings me back to dealing with Lee or one of the other services (Turn One right there in Michigan) that still do custom rebuilds on the "old" 800/700 gears.

I (and others) can only suggest--you have to decide what is prudent to meet your objective(s). I just don't grasp the idea of doing a complete suspension rebuild, then possibly "skimping" on the steering gear.

More musings
 

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Any idea of the ratio of the Durango steering box is? And did all Durango's get it or only select ones? - Peter
Thank you, Sir :)

I had read all of them other than the ratio spreadsheet.

Doesnt however, unless I'm missing it, answer my question about the YJ being an upgrade or not :)

And a little more poking around, I found that the Durango is sought after in the off-roading world due to ?larger piston? and makes turning with large tires easier.
 

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I'm not even sure whether the Durango gear (shown here) will fit on the B-body frame.

Clearly it is another version of the 700 or 800 Saginaw/Delphi unit used in production.

A larger piston would require more fluid, so the pump will need to be upgraded too, in all likelihood. It isn't possible to assume that there is a need for the larger gear in a B-body, as far as piston area. The OE unit is more than adequate for car applications, and I don't see any advantage in having MORE steering boost than is needed--or the need to carry the extra weight of the larger gear.

Please--talk to Tom Lee and get some straight answers. They do have a toll-free number.
 

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I just so happen to have a Durango as well as my RMW. I haven't looked at the steering box but I do have oversized tires and they turn easy enough. There isn't what I would call an overabundance of feedback coming up through the steering wheel though. I know there are more contributors to steering feel than the steering box. Comparing the feel of my Durango's steering and the feel of my RMW, I have to say that a Durango box isn't gonna get you (or any of us) where we wanna be on steering box issues. Just a quick surface observation.

There a bunch of the 670 boxes out there set up for tri-5 Chevy's. Does anyone know if they're compatible with B-bodies?
 

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The whole "use a ZJ box" is partially my fault.

Back in the early 2000's a replacement Saginaw box for a mid 90's ZJ was DIRT cheap from Chrysler.

It was less than 300 bucks for a BRAND NEW 12.7 fixed ratio box with fairly heavy feel due to torsion bar.

This, I believe , was due to them not having rebuilds in their system.
A couple years later all you could get from them were rebuilds of spotty quality
Fast forward to 2010 , you are looking at 12 year OLD or more steering boxes out of 4x4's.
Not the best source for something good.

Since not many of you rebuild steering boxes, you are forced to look at the specialty re builders as Bill suggested.
Gerry
 

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Figured I'd throw this out there for those looking to find junkyard 670 boxes.

"Bulletin No.: 05-02-32-008B
Date: July 18, 2007
ENGINEERING INFORMATION
Subject:
EI06002 - 670 Gear Box Power Steering Pump, P/S Performance Concerns

Models:
2003-2006 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT
2003-2006 Chevrolet Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe
2003-2007 Chevrolet Silverado Classic
2007-2008 Chevrolet Silverado, Suburban (2500 Series Only)
2003-2006 GMC Yukon, Yukon Denali, Yukon XL
2003-2007 GMC Sierra Classic
2007-2008 GMC Sierra, Yukon XL (2500 Series Only)

Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to add model years and models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-02-32-008A (Section 02 - Steering).
Condition
Some customers may comment on a lack of steering assist when stopped or during parking lot type maneuvers. A lack of steering assist could occur if the brakes are applied and turning the steering wheel with the vehicle stopped or during parking lot type maneuvers. This condition will go away or greatly improve once vehicle begins to move or is above parking lot speeds. This concern can be aggravated by worn tires, low tire air pressure, low power steering pump pressures, and tires larger than stock size.
Correction
In all cases, it is recommended that the proper tire size and the maximum tire pressure is set according to the manufacturer's specification as noted on the door placard; especially for the front tires.
Perform the "Power Steering System Test" found in SI. Make any necessary repairs based on system diagnosis.
FOR 2500 AND 3500 VEHICLES ONLY - If diagnostics did not lead to any repair, this concern is a normal operating characteristic. No further repairs should be made. A Field Product Report should be submitted - refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 02-00-89-002D.
FOR 1500 SERIES VEHICLES ONLY - If diagnostics did not lead to any repair, this concern is a normal operating characteristic.
If the vehicle is equipped with a 670 gear box, replacing it with a 680 gear box may increase the customer satisfaction.
To determine if the vehicle is equipped with a 670 gear box, inspect the mounting bolts that attach the stub shaft housing. A 670 gear box will only have 3 mounting bolts. If the stub shaft housing does not have any mounting bolts or has 4 bolts - DO NOT PROCEED WITH THIS BULLETIN. The vehicle is not equipped with a 670 gear box.
If replacing a 670 gear box with a 680 gear box, it will be necessary to replace the power steering gear, union fitting and both inlet 0-ring seals"
 
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