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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
I've been reading a whole lot(forum posts)and have come up with this setup:

Head:pioneer DEH-P77DH(Want to fill GM space)
Front:Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 6.5" Components(100RMS)
Rear:Infinity REF9603I 6"x9" 3-Way Speakers(100RMS)
Amp:profile Clarus CL640(110W RMS x 2 @2ohms)

-After reading, I understand that going over the RMS rating, in the amp, by 5 to 10 watts is preffered. Is this correct? Any suggestions?
-How much more stress is put on the amp when wired in parallel?
-I really don't care for extreme bass in my car. I listen to hard rock/heavy metal and prefer more clarity(guitar solos)and tighter bass. The only time I really turn up the volume is on the highway. Will the above speakers suffice? Did I go overboard with the 3 ways in the rear?

Please, any constructive criticism is welcomed. I know nothing about car audio.

Thanks guys
SoKooLss
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Originally posted by sokoolss:
Hello all,
I've been reading a whole lot(forum posts)and have come up with this setup:

Head:pioneer DEH-P77DH(Want to fill GM space)
Front:Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 6.5" Components(100RMS)
Rear:Infinity REF9603I 6"x9" 3-Way Speakers(100RMS)
Amp:profile Clarus CL640(110W RMS x 2 @2ohms)

(1.) -After reading, I understand that going over the RMS rating, in the amp, by 5 to 10 watts is preffered. Is this correct? Any suggestions?

(2.) -How much more stress is put on the amp when wired in parallel?

-I really don't care for extreme bass in my car. I listen to hard rock/heavy metal and prefer more clarity(guitar solos)and tighter bass. The only time I really turn up the volume is on the highway.

(3.) Will the above speakers suffice? Did I go overboard with the 3 ways in the rear?

Please, any constructive criticism is welcomed. I know nothing about car audio.

Thanks guys
SoKooLss
Answers:

(1.) Que? Please elaborate, the question is fairly ambiguous.

(2.) Wiring in parallel or series puts no more/less stress on your amp if the final impedance (ohms) presented to the amp are within it's limits.

(3.) The above speakers should suffice, assuming that you listen to music at 'normal' listening levels.

Hope this helps a little, feel free to ask more questions, though.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
you should go with a better amp, go with a good 4 channel that puts out 70rms or more, or just a good 2 channel for the components that does about 75 or more and leave the rear off the deck. as for the components, you might find them lacking in midbass, and theyre being very bright does not help much.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Head:pioneer DEH-P77DH(Want to fill GM space)
Front:Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 6.5" Components(100RMS)
Rear:Infinity REF9603I 6"x9" 3-Way Speakers(100RMS)
Amp:profile Clarus CL640(110W RMS x2 @2ohms)
1st, Let Me Say That I Listen To The Same Type Of Music As You Do! I DONT Do Rap Music and DONT Require The Neighbors To Hear My Body Panels Rattling As I Drive By. I've Allready Been Thru This Whole Senario Of The Type Of Setup Your Looking For And Here's What I Came Up With:

(1). The Pioneer Head Unit Is a Good Choice!
(2). The Kapaa Perfect 6 1/2 Components, Also a Good Choice With Hacks Door Speaker Adaptor.
(Here's The Link And Their Easy To Make)
Hacks 6 1/2" Door Speaker Template
(3). The Infinity Reference 6X9'Speakers Are a "Mis-Match For The KaPaa's In The Front Door.
Rule Of Thumb Is: Try To Match all 4 Factory Speaker Locations With The Same Type and Series Of Speaker. I Suggest You Install The Infinity Kappa 6X9 2 Way's Or 3 Ways In The Rear Deck.
(4). The "Profile Clarus CL640" Amp Is NOT a Good Choice But It Will work For This Setup! Run It At The Rated 75X4 @ 4Ohms If You Choose To Buy It? It's Just a Lower Quality Amp!
All 4 Speakers You Want To Install Are Rated at 4 Ohms and Should Be Run At 4 Ohms, Not 8 Ohms or a 2 Ohm Load (A Series or Parallel Wiring Setup)..... (Their Not Subs and Recommended To Be Run At Their Rated 4 Ohm Load). In Short, You Need a 4 Channel Amp That's Rated a 4 Ohms Per Channel and 50 to 75 Watts Per Channel Will Be Plenty For This Setup (Again, Were Not Driving Subwoofers Here). You Will Get "Decent" Bass Response Out Of The 6X9's For The Low End Fill. Even At 50 Watts Per Channel (What I Have) Your Ears Will Be At The Threshold Of Pain When You Crank It Up! I Also Suggest You Put a Layer of "Dyna-Mat" On The Underside and Topside Of The REAR Speaker Deck Around Your 6X9's Because The Sheet Metal Tends To Vibrate Back There and Annoyed The Hell Of Of Me Until I Did It! Buy a 4 Way Amp With Built In Crossovers (More Important For Your Front Speakers Here). Suggestions For Or 4 Way Amp For This Setup:
(The Key Here Is To Get an Amp With "Variable" Crossovers, Not "Fixed Crossovers).

(1).Alpine MRV-F340 (55 Watts X4 @ 4 Ohms)
(2).Audiobahn A4401T (55X4 @ 4Ohms)
(3).Rockford Fosgate Power 551X (70X 4 @ 4 Ohms)
(4).Autotek SS400.4 (70X4 @ 4Ohms)

Just Remember, The Quality Of The Amp You Choose Is Important Also! The $99.00 "Class A" Amps You See Out Their Are Mostly Junk! Buy An Amp That's At Least Class A/B. All The Amps Listed Above Are Class A/B And Range In Price From $175.00 to $245.00 You Can Find Any Of These Amps For Sale Cheaper On E-Bay Than Say,At Crutchfields.
Try These Links And Check Out The Prices!....Mike
E-Bay - Multi Channel Amps

E-Tronics- Car Amplifiers
 
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Discussion Starter #5
B-Body.....you da man!
Now I have even more amps to choose from. I'm gonna try and find a quality 80 Watt RMS amp somewhere. I hope thats enough RMS for those speakers.

Thanks guys
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Hey B-Body...

Just curious, why do you capitalize the first letter of each word, it's kinda hard on the eyes.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Hey B-Body...
Just curious, why do you capitalize the first letter of each word, it's kinda hard on the eyes
It's a typing Exercise that was drilled into us in college, I still use it sometimes when I've had too much Coffee! How's this look?

Now I have even more amps to choose from. I'm gonna try and find a quality 80 Watt RMS amp somewhere. I hope thats enough RMS for those speakers.
sokoolSS,It's not required that you have an amp that put's out the same or close to the same RMS rating as the speakers are rated at. If a speaker is rated at 100 Watts RMS, This just means that it can handle up to 100 Watts of (Continuous) power from the amp and function correctly. RMS Rating is what the amp puts out as soon as you turn it on (low to 1/3 volume).
Peak power is what the amp puts out at somewhere between 2/3 volume and cranked all the way up on the gain controls in the amp (Not recommended) Simple rule here: Power is not what destroys speakers, Distortion does! If you crank the gain controls on the amp up to full gain, then start turning your head unit up to full volume, your going to get Distortion and fry the speakers! A Common mistake that's made is buying a good set of speakers, then running them with the factory head unit that put's out 10 watts of power! In no time the Internal amps in the factory head unit are peaking and distorting the new set of speakers you just bought and their history! Take the Alpine MRV-F340 Amp i suggested thats rated at 55 Watts RMS. That amp puts out 100 Watts "Peak Power" when the gain controls on the amp are cranked all the way up (Again, Not recommended). If you set the gain controls on the amp to 3/4 Gain MAX, Your gonna get approx 80 Watts of power to your speakers at half volume on your head unit. The Infinity Kapaa speakers will work on as little as 10 watts of power but they prefer to see around 50 watts RMS (Continuous) Power and around 80 Watts Peak power. Also, set the "High-Pass" crossover point on the front speakers (Door) to somewhere between 180hz and 300Hz. This will keep them from being destroyed by Bass frequency's. The 6X9's can handle more Bass but again, their not Subs! you can try them set at "Full Range" but if they are starting to rattle, set the crossover point to somewhere between 70 to 120 Hz. Too sum all this up: Putting an amp that's rated at 55 Watts RMS on the infinity Kappa speakers is a good setup because your leaving yourself some "Headroom" in both the amp and the speakers ratings and not overpowering either one of them! Clean Power = Clean Sound! When you pick an amp out, We'll talk about the power wire size and other cables your gonna need?.....Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #8
you dont always have to match front and rear series. especially if you are into sq. you want rear fill to be just that. front stage should be more prominent. class a amps are amaxing for sq, and i doubt you will find one for 99. class a/b is more efficient but not as good for sq and a lot cheaper. the fosgate 551x is a great amp. you should be able to have that amp and all the installation parts for less than 300. i use that amp in numerous installs and it is great.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
by the way, if you havent looked at them yet, i'd look at mb quart. these are great speakers not too expensive for reference and discus series. i would get rce216 for front stage and dke169 for rear. you can have all the speakers for about 300 brand new. or if you can go with dse216 instead and save 50 bucks.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
I purchased an amp on ebay today :D
Here are the specs:
Audiobahn A6004T 600 Watt Amp-75w x 4 @ 4ohms Grand total with shipping $184.90

OK Mike...talk to me about the wiring. How long should it be, what gauge, etc.

I haven't purchased the speakers yet so I'm still looking at my options. MB Quart was my first choice but they never give RMS ratings so the uncertainty made me look at other name brands. But feel free to give more advice on speakers as well. Should I put 6 x 9's in? Should I just get some components back there as well? Some 6.5" mid bass kickers? Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks guys
SoKooLss
 
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Discussion Starter #11
SoKooL, what i ended up doing eventually to my caprice was to put 2-Kicker Free Air 8" Mid subs in the rear deck holes (With some modifications) and put a set of Infinity Kapaa 4X6 Plate speakers in 2 custom made fiberglass boxes in the rear deck corners. I Bought the Alpine MRV-450 "5 Channel" Amp ( 4 X 50 Watts + 1 X 200 Watts) Ran all 4 Infinity Kappa speakers at 50 watts and the 2- 8" Kicker free airs (Which were 8 ohm speakers) in parallel to get a 4 ohm load and ran the 200 watt mono channel on the amp thru these (More than enough bass for me). I Had infinity kapaa 6X9's in the rear deck with NO Problems but my son needed a pair for his 94 chevy truck so I Gave them to him along with the Rockford fosgate 4 way amp I Was running the system with. Wire You Ask? I'd run an 8-Gauge power and ground wire for that amp and your going to be needing 2 Sets of RCA Cables to run from your head unit to "Where-Ever" you plan to mount the amp at? Here's a quick list of some items you still need to buy to complete your setup but tell me where you plan to mount the amp and i can give you a more detailed explanation!....Mike
(1). 8 gauge power wire from the battery to where ever you plan on mounting the amp
(2). 8 gauge ground wire (No More then 3ft long) The shorter the better on the ground wire.
(3). 20 gauge single remote wire from your head unit or Accessory switch to the amp location
(4). a spool of 18 Gauge speaker wire (Enough length to make it to all 4 speakers from the amp location).
(5). 2 Sets of RCA Cables, From The head unit to your amp location.
(6). a Positive Battery terminal adaptor to hook the 8 gauge power wire to the battery.
(7). An "Inline fuse" and Fuse holder that goes between the battery and the amp on the 8-Gauge power wire.
(8). The proper speaker terminal "Crimp-On" Adaptors for hooking up your speakers to the 18 gauge speaker wire.

Again, let me know where you plan to mount the amp and I'll help more! Mine is mounted vertically on 2 L Brackets I Made, Drilled some holes in the rear deck, mounted the brackets,then mounted the amp to the brackets in the left corner of the trunk next to the seat back........Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Mike.
I'm going to mount my amp on the baffle board of the trunk kit.
-How did you route your wires from the amp to the front speakers?
-Do the 6.5" Infinity Kappa components produce more highs than lows? This will help me decide if I want 2 or 3 way 6x9's in the rear.

Thanks
SoKooLss
 
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Discussion Starter #13
The kapaa 6.5 components are Good Mids and highs!
The set of Kappa 6X9's I Had were the 2 ways and plenty enough highs for my taste. I Ran the speaker wire from the amp to the front speakers thru each corner of the rear seat (L&R Sides), Under the c-Pillar moldings, Then i removed the door sill plates (Front and rear) and ran the wire down both sides, All the way up to the L&R Sides of the dash. Removed 1 door panel at a time, Got a Metal Coat hanger and snaked it thru the rubber door boot from inside the door, thru the boot to the underside dash area. Looped the 18 gauge wire around the coat hanger, Squeezed the coat hanger shut in a small loop shape, Then Pulled the 18 gauge wire thru the rubber boot (Carefully and slowly as to not catch any other wires) and into the inside door area. Crimp On The Speaker terminals AFTER You have done this to both sides. My Power Wire And Remote wire Are
also ran down from the Left dash area, under the Front and rear L-Side Sill Plates and to the trunk area the same way the L-Side speaker wire is routed (There's enough Space Underneath Them). My 2 sets of RCA Cables are run down the right side of the car the same way (Under the sill plates) Along with the right door speaker wires. Be Carefull when you put the sill plates back on that you dont put 1 of the screws that hold the sill plates on into a wire! I Used the small plastic zip straps to hold the wires close together in the sill plate area because of this senario. Just Remember, If You Measure Say 12FT 6 Inches for the left side speaker wire, Make it 6 Inches longer before you cut the wire, Better safe than sorry and you can always cut off the excess when you have it properly routed! The baffle board is a great place to mount the amp!Never on carpet! (This causes it to overheat).E-Mail Me When you get the items I Mentioned and I Can help you along the process!.....Mike
You Can Also find complete 8 Gauge amp wiring kits and RCA Cables on Ebay at these links! :D
8- Gauge wire kits on E-Bay

And RCA Cables Here
RCA Cables and Interconnects on E-Bay
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I still use it sometimes when I've had too much Coffee! How's this look?
Perfect!

Also, set the "High-Pass" crossover point on the front speakers (Door) to somewhere between 180hz and 300Hz. This will keep them from being destroyed by Bass frequency's.
Those crossover points are a little high, dontcha think? Even if you are talkin about 4x6's up front (I assumed 6.5's), you can still cross 'em over at 100Hz and be safe (especially at low power levels).
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Originally posted by B-Body Builder:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Head:pioneer DEH-P77DH(Want to fill GM space)
Front:Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 6.5" Components(100RMS)
Rear:Infinity REF9603I 6"x9" 3-Way Speakers(100RMS)
Amp:profile Clarus CL640(110W RMS x2 @2ohms)
1st, Let Me Say That I Listen To The Same Type Of Music As You Do! I DONT Do Rap Music and DONT Require The Neighbors To Hear My Body Panels Rattling As I Drive By. I've Allready Been Thru This Whole Senario Of The Type Of Setup Your Looking For And Here's What I Came Up With:

(1). The Pioneer Head Unit Is a Good Choice!
(2). The Kapaa Perfect 6 1/2 Components, Also a Good Choice With Hacks Door Speaker Adaptor.
(Here's The Link And Their Easy To Make)
Hacks 6 1/2" Door Speaker Template
(3). The Infinity Reference 6X9'Speakers Are a "Mis-Match For The KaPaa's In The Front Door.
Rule Of Thumb Is: Try To Match all 4 Factory Speaker Locations With The Same Type and Series Of Speaker. I Suggest You Install The Infinity Kappa 6X9 2 Way's Or 3 Ways In The Rear Deck.
(4). The "Profile Clarus CL640" Amp Is NOT a Good Choice But It Will work For This Setup! Run It At The Rated 75X4 @ 4Ohms If You Choose To Buy It? It's Just a Lower Quality Amp!
All 4 Speakers You Want To Install Are Rated at 4 Ohms and Should Be Run At 4 Ohms, Not 8 Ohms or a 2 Ohm Load (A Series or Parallel Wiring Setup)..... (Their Not Subs and Recommended To Be Run At Their Rated 4 Ohm Load). In Short, You Need a 4 Channel Amp That's Rated a 4 Ohms Per Channel and 50 to 75 Watts Per Channel Will Be Plenty For This Setup (Again, Were Not Driving Subwoofers Here). You Will Get "Decent" Bass Response Out Of The 6X9's For The Low End Fill. Even At 50 Watts Per Channel (What I Have) Your Ears Will Be At The Threshold Of Pain When You Crank It Up! I Also Suggest You Put a Layer of "Dyna-Mat" On The Underside and Topside Of The REAR Speaker Deck Around Your 6X9's Because The Sheet Metal Tends To Vibrate Back There and Annoyed The Hell Of Of Me Until I Did It! Buy a 4 Way Amp With Built In Crossovers (More Important For Your Front Speakers Here). Suggestions For Or 4 Way Amp For This Setup:
(The Key Here Is To Get an Amp With "Variable" Crossovers, Not "Fixed Crossovers).

(1).Alpine MRV-F340 (55 Watts X4 @ 4 Ohms)
(2).Audiobahn A4401T (55X4 @ 4Ohms)
(3).Rockford Fosgate Power 551X (70X 4 @ 4 Ohms)
(4).Autotek SS400.4 (70X4 @ 4Ohms)

Just Remember, The Quality Of The Amp You Choose Is Important Also! The $99.00 "Class A" Amps You See Out Their Are Mostly Junk! Buy An Amp That's At Least Class A/B. All The Amps Listed Above Are Class A/B And Range In Price From $175.00 to $245.00 You Can Find Any Of These Amps For Sale Cheaper On E-Bay Than Say,At Crutchfields.
Try These Links And Check Out The Prices!....Mike
E-Bay - Multi Channel Amps

E-Tronics- Car Amplifiers
</font>[/QUOTE]Sounds like a good set up. I'd want to do something similar.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
By Azroadmonster
Those crossover points are a little high, dontcha think? Even if you are talkin about 4x6's up front (I assumed 6.5's), you can still cross 'em over at 100Hz and be safe (especially at low power levels).
Well, It all depends on what your trying re-produce out of a set of 6.5" Speakers. Crutchfield Recommends a 150hz "Bass Blocker" for those that dont have an amp with built in crossovers so I'd say it's not far off. At 100hz, your going to need to Dyna-mat the front doors and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do that anyway's. It wont hurt to start at 100hz and work your way up if need be? I checked my crossover today and it was set at about 170hz. It's all a matter of taste I'd say? His Pioneer head unit no doubt has some preset EQ Curves that are going to be boosting these frequencys anyways until he gets used to doing them manually to taste so it's all a matter of personal preference from there. The frequency response on the Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.5 Components is 75-23,000 Hz So crossing them over at 100hz is not bad, but it's damn near running them at full range........Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by B-Body Builder:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />By Azroadmonster
Those crossover points are a little high, dontcha think? Even if you are talkin about 4x6's up front (I assumed 6.5's), you can still cross 'em over at 100Hz and be safe (especially at low power levels).

Well, It all depends on what your trying re-produce out of a set of 6.5" Speakers. Crutchfield Recommends a 150hz "Bass Blocker" for those that dont have an amp with built in crossovers so I'd say it's not far off. At 100hz, your going to need to Dyna-mat the front doors and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do that anyway's. It wont hurt to start at 100hz and work your way up if need be? I checked my crossover today and it was set at about 170hz. It's all a matter of taste I'd say? His Pioneer head unit no doubt has some preset EQ Curves that are going to be boosting these frequencys anyways until he gets used to doing them manually to taste so it's all a matter of personal preference from there. The frequency response on the Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.5 Components is 75-23,000 Hz So crossing them over at 100hz is not bad, but it's damn near running them at full range........Mike </font>[/QUOTE]100Hz is what my 6 1/2 components are crossed over at in my doors. they are rated at 50Hz - 22kHz. but then again i have an 8in woofer up front as well running at 130Hz and down so it blends it all together. 4x6s i usually would cut off at 120Hz. but thats just personal preferance.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
mb quart always gives the rms ratings. they just give you a range. no max or peak ratings. mb quarts are awesome. i've installed every series and they are all great.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Hey sokoolss. I was in your same position when I got my caprice. I ended up doing a mismatched system at first and now I regret it. The best advice I can give you is to go with components up front, mount the tweeters as close to dash level as possible, and dont mount your amp(s) upside down on the rear deck without cooling fans. The heat doesn't have a good place to escape and this can lead to premature amp death.

My setup now is pretty nice. I don't have a great soundstage up front right now because i just threw some old infinity refrence in the front, while I have kappa in the back. (saving up for CDT components) But as far as bass is concerned I would HIGHLY recommend the IDMAX subwoofer by Image Dynamics. I bought one a while ago and it really blows me away. It has specs that are quite competitive with the JL w7, but it's about half the price.

Hope this helps. Also, here is a site with pics of my car on it with the current stereo setup. I did the trunk setup in a few days, and it wasnt too difficult. I go through and explain the process on the site. Good luck and keep on SS'ing.

http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/455955/1
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Crutchfield Recommends a 150hz "Bass Blocker" for those that dont have an amp with built in crossovers.<snip> The frequency response on the Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.5 Components is 75-23,000 Hz So crossing them over at 100hz is not bad, but it's damn near running them at full range........Mike [/QB]
The reason that crutchfield recommends the 150Hz "bass blocker" is because that one cap amounts to a 6dB/octave high-pass cross over. Do the math and that amounts to -6dB at 75Hz, -12Db at 37.5Hz, etc. Most crossovers that are built into amps are min. 12dB/octave, so if you set it to 100Hz, you are -12dB at 50Hz, and -24dB at 25Hz, which equates to more output down to 75Hz or so, but because of the sharp roll-off, you don't have to worry about damaging the speaker.
 
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