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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've driven in multiple manual cars most recently the 2021 STI and all of them I can get the clutch to bite to a point where it can hold the car on an uphill without stalling. Makes it really easy to transition the right foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator and smoothly get going without rolling back.

However in the SS I can't get release the clutch pedal far enough where it bites to hold the car in place without stalling. So essentially I got to get my foot from the brake to the accelerator fast enough and rev it to not stall out and roll back, and the roll back on this car is much more significant presumably due to the weight of it.

It's not that it isn't doable but it's definitely not fun to be on an uphill especially when it's stop and go traffic. And unlike other cars where I can just pop the handbrake this car has the foot pedal handbrake so that doesn't help either.

I have the idle RPM speed set about to 850rpm, I put it to a 1000 and that felt better but the idle just felt too high so put it back to 850 for now. Let me know how your t56 cars handle it and if/or you guys kind of face the same thing.
 

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Practice ???

The less overall ratio ( first gear x axle ratio ) the less happy to make the transition.
The more aggressive the clutch, the harder it is .
Holding the car with the clutch while transitioning really isnt the best practice anyway.
If you really have trouble "learning" the car and popping the clutch to the friction point on hills, maybe a line lock is in your future.

In direct answer to your question when my car was a 350-4.10- 2.66 T56 , it was not an issue
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was thinking more along the lines of a hydro e brake 😁.

Im able to transition no issue but its a bit tedious compared to other manual cars driven.

But if it's the case with all other 350/t56 b bodies it's not really an issue. Was just wondering if someone had addressed it.
 

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As a guess take a look at the spark timing tables at idle. Is it possible a factory manual car was programmed differently? Idling a torque converter requires something different than a manual that goes from no load to engaged.
 

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Good point, if there is any big difference between close throttle tables and off idle for a given RPM, that can make the transition worse.
That and if the timing drops with an off idle RPM sag .

( edit : data logging the timing when you are transitioning might be telling )

My line lock was installed when the car was an automatic to do proper burnouts on slicks at the racetrack.
I will admit to being thankfull couple times a clown snuggled right up behind at a steep traffic light.
No excuse but granted not a car the unsuspecting would think to give room to at a hilly stop.
 

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I can keep my foot on the brake, and ease out the clutch to feel the grab, then release the brake. Car will move with no throttle added. 4.10 gears. Stock LT4 clutch. Stock hydraulics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can keep my foot on the brake, and ease out the clutch to feel the grab, then release the brake. Car will move with no throttle added. 4.10 gears. Stock LT4 clutch. Stock hydraulics.
Hmm that is interesting, few more things I need to dial in before I spend more time looking into it but I do wonder is it more of a physical adjustment than it is a tune adjustment (i.e type of clutch etc). Does yours chatter at all when it hits the grab point?

The issue is not a big deal but can be annoying when someone gives you no room for error coming right up to your bumper.
 

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You'll get used to it. Just keep the foot on brake, ease clutch out until grab starts, then move right foot over to gas. Car won't roll back, and it happens fast, you won't hurt the clutch.

lol @ 95wagon's pic. Might need more gas on that one.
 

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If you put your heel on the brake, and toe on the throttle you can roll them. If the distance is not working for you, you may be able to "adjust the throttle pedal or brake pedal to make it comfortable". You do not say exactly what issues you have, so it is hard to diagnose over the internet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well that's what I'm trying to find out if it is an issue or not.

Right now at my house is 3 different manual cars. All of them on an uphill I can get the clutch to grab and hold the car in place while releasing the brake and not being on the accelerator. I can't in the SS.

That's pretty much to it, its more of a question should my car be able to do that or not.

Not really asking how to handle uphill's but I can tell you out of the 4 manual cars at my house the SS definitely behaves the most different. It could just be a t56 thing so really until I get into another sorted t56 impala and drive it to see how it feels I'm just grasping at straws with these questions lol.
 

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If I'm slow enough on the clutch I can get it up to 30-40mph without ever touching the gas. Although this is Kansas and a 4 degree slope constitutes a hill. I also have a LS brain and I do believe the keep alive functions are faster in the newer computer.

-Brian
 

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Well that's what I'm trying to find out if it is an issue or not.

Right now at my house is 3 different manual cars. All of them on an uphill I can get the clutch to grab and hold the car in place while releasing the brake and not being on the accelerator. I can't in the SS.

That's pretty much to it, its more of a question should my car be able to do that or not.

Not really asking how to handle uphill's but I can tell you out of the 4 manual cars at my house the SS definitely behaves the most different. It could just be a t56 thing so really until I get into another sorted t56 impala and drive it to see how it feels I'm just grasping at straws with these questions lol.
The heel and toe technique is the appropriate technique to start on a hill. You should not have to attempt to get to the gas from the brake while hoping that the car will not drift backwards. I was taught that technique when I was in my late teens. It takes a little practice, but once mastered, it will give you a lot of confidence when driving a stick. It is also used when braking and downshifting to keep the engine revs up and make a smooth downshift that will not upset the car going into a corner.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The heel and toe technique is the appropriate technique to start on a hill. You should not have to attempt to get to the gas from the brake while hoping that the car will not drift backwards. I was taught that technique when I was in my late teens. It takes a little practice, but once mastered, it will give you a lot of confidence when driving a stick. It is also used when braking and downshifting to keep the engine revs up and make a smooth downshift that will not upset the car going into a corner.
Good point, I probably will need to adjust the pedals since I have small feet 😢
 

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Op...in a word "practice"

You didn't mention what your rear gear is...?

I did T56 swap over 15 years ago. Have 4:10 gears and a McLeod Twin disc clutch. Have a driveway that is a mild incline. I can hold car in place without foot on brake but doing so is clutch slippage which is not good to do. I have never had a issue taking foot off brake to accelerator and releasing clutch in a smooth effort without car rolling back. On a hill it is a slight roll back, maybe a foot if at all so it has yet to be any problem. frankly after 16 years of having the SS a stick car it is just 2nd nature to just drive it

I do have a line lock as I did drag the car for years which I can use in the event there is a steep hill or a hole parked right behind me situation. If you feel you can't find a foot/pedal technique that works for you than installing a line lock would be a way of having a easily releasable "parking brake"

My LL is a button in the coin slot on DS. It lights up when engaged so you just tap to release



 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
4.10 gears I have but going to get them checked out by the installer, whine coming from the rear-end. Stock steel driveshaft.

And to re-iterate It's more of a question on the behavior, so far you, jay and sshockr all say that your clutch can grab to hold the car in place without stalling. I know it isn't good for the clutch but it seems like that should be the correct behavior, as the other 3 manual cars at my house do that also.

Is it a tune adjustment, possibly, is it a physical adjustment like the clutch itself, possibly. I'm just trying to gauge a reference to the behavior of my car versus other t56 cars.

I have no issue with the technique or I wouldn't be able to drive the car uphill. My driveway is an uphill itself lol
 

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Well , since you are solidly convinced it is the car and not you, may I suggest you do some logging of the engine when it is stalling as you try to transition from brake to clutch holding the car at idle.
One possibility would be the timing is falling away or not being added to enough.
Although the IAC is supposed to handle the idle on its own, sometimes adding a crapload of timing , ramping up as the idle speed drops below the target helps.

Font Technology Operating system Computer Software
 

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Toon...as 95Wagon suggests if you feel "you" are not a contributing factor do as he suggests regarding the tune. I do know some have had issues with their Bbody t/56 tunes if not done by Ed Wright

Regarding holding any stick car on a hill, the only way to do that is have the rpm/engagement "almost" engaged which is essentially slipping the clutch but with enough friction being created to hold the car while at a incline. Needless to say this is just slipping the clutch which if done frequently is not good.

I have a incline driveway and park 2 cars in my garage so I have to use the technique you want to hold and creep into the garage while I am carefully looking not to hit my 67 Camaro or the garage opening. Like anything else it took a little" practice" even though I have been driving stick cars for over 50 years

This can be a huge PIA with aggressive disc material clutches but is easily done with standard full face organic disc clutches. Assuming you have hydraulic clutch activation there is really no "adjustment" other than a smaller than standard bore MC which would need more stroke (pedal travel) to provide enough stroke for the hydraulics to disengage the clutch. My McLeod Twin has a larger, 13/16". MC which that clutch requires but the pedal stroke (distance) is "slightly" shorter than stock LT1 clutch hydraulics. But like any stick car one just gets used to whatever its specific characteristics it may have.

Your rear gear whine is likely due to not so great install so that will require re-shim/install to fix. Ideally it has not caused a wear pattern that has set in. Also typically stock DS does not have the balance or width to deal with the RPM it see's with 4:10's. Dennys, IMHO, is the way to go for a 3.5" DS
 

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BALLSS gave my favorite reply. I've driven both a T56 swapped Impala SS (stock engine, 4.10 gears), and a 2004 Pontiac GTO with a rumpy cam. Once I learned and found that sweet spot on both cars, it's fine. But sometimes it takes me a few tries on a "new to me" car. Clutch material is a big factor!!!!

Case in point... years ago, I drove a friend's 3000GT VR4 with a manual. It was easy to start on hills. During a turbo upgrade, we changed the clutch to some high performance version with aggressive material. It sure gave quick shifts and bit hard. But made it much harder to start on hills. I smoked that clutch driving it a few times, I couldn't get used to it. Eventually the owner changed it back to a stock material... when it ended up welded to the plate. LOL. Some clutches just aren't a good fit for the application. The application being daily driver versus track versus engine setup, cam, gears, etc. They all play a role. Aggressive clutches do not like to slip. Bang through the gears and good luck starting on hills.

Fast forward to a modern Jeep. Be happy you have a V8! That V6 Jeep was fussy with the lack of torque down low to even get a start without bogging/bucking the engine. I think my friend was toying with me... because he had me enable "hill assist" and all was well after that. Which brings me to my next point... are any of your other manual cars a modern design and possibly have the "assist" feature? Interestingly, my 2011 Caprice PPV is an automatic but it has hill assist! I think it's tied into the brakes somehow. But I am not sure. It's a relatively common feature on new manual transmission cars. Once you get used to that crutch, going back to an old fashioned car can take some re-adjustment.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yea I'll be honest I didn't do much research when selecting the clutch other than someone telling me to just get it. RAM Clutches 98516 RAM Powergrip Clutch Kits | Summit Racing

Found this older thread T56 Flywheel and Clutch FAQ to which I found after the fact, probably would have went with the mcleod DF setup.

Don't get me wrong though the car is amazing, the goal of the build was to get that old school muscle car feel and I think it hit the spot with it.

I know the 2021 wrx sti at my house has the hillstop assist, the other two are hyundais which don't. Though one of the hyundai cars the clutch literally engages when I release my foot the tiniest bit which is funny to drive.
 
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