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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently put in Hotchkis springs which was the only suspension mod in nearly a year. Today I noticed a rubbing in the front end and when I got home tonite I found that I have gouges in my Hotchkis bar! It appears to be from hard right and left turns and it's my tie rods hitting it!

Anyone know what's up with this? I've got 17x8.5" ROH's running 275/40's with Edelbrock shocks and the full Hotchkis suspension setup (Arms, bars and springs). Any reason for the sudden change? I do know that my upper bushings are toast and I've got all new ball joints and bushings waiting to go in. It looks like my endlinks are too short though and should be atleast 1/4" longer, but wouldn't this have surfaced oh, 1000 miles ago when I put the springs on?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
James,

I have the Same setup as you on my SS and I don't have contact issues with my Tie-Rods. This is rather odd..

I have the Complete Hotchkis Setup with HAL QA1 Shocks and a complete MOOG Front End...ans I am using the Hotchkis Tie-Rod Sleves as well...No Contact issues other than the inside of my tires hitting the sway bar on a tight turn...

Is the Sway bar mounted upside down, is that possible...
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought about that and I just checked to be sure it wasn't. The strange part is that I've had this current setup on the car for a few weeks now and drove nearly 2k miles in that amount of time with no problems until this week. I'm replacing a bushing today so I'll update if I find anything strange.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm actually hitting the swaybar with the bolt/nut on the top of the tierod end where it tightens down on the spindle.

I measured my endlink spacers and they're 2 3/8" I'm going to see if I can pick up some Energy Suspension endlinks with longer spacers.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I also have the Hotchkis/Moog package. I only have the hard left turn tire/swaybar rub. Then again, I had that when I was stock!
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I tried to get endlinks last night but Autozone was missing stock, couldn't look up inventory at any other stores either.

The swaybar looks fine, it's just that my nice black coating is gone in two spots now. I've rubbed on both sides of the bar with the front tires since the day I installed the bar. Nothing major, just enough to keep a 1" diameter area constantly shiny.

Just got done attempting to install new endlinks. I went for the 2 7/8" spacer when I probably should have gone with the 2-5/8" (I currently have 2-3/8" on the car. It wasn't very close to level, so I'll get the 2-5/8" tomorrow. Just finished pressing in a ball joint too. Boy does that job suck!
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have the same problem (at least, I think it's the same). Have been meaning to post about it for a couple weeks.

I have the Hotchkis front sway bar and Intrax springs. I actually cut down my end links (made them shorter) so that the part of the sway bar which attaches to the end links would be parallel to the ground. Longer end links would have resulted in a situation where the sway bar was angled up (toward the engine) where it attached to the end links.

The Intrax springs are shorter than the Hotchkis springs from what I understand.

Either way, I can't visualize how the length of endlinks would cause or solve the problem. I will take a picture of the whole issue sometime tomorrow and post.

-- Dan
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I finally got around to taking a picture of the problem.

Hotchkis swaybar, Intrax springs. With steering at or near full lock, left or right, and suspension at or near full bump -- the nut/stud of the tie rod contacts the swaybar.

Close-up of the problem. This is driver's side. Same on passenger side.


Suspension at full droop, steering at full lock left (no contact here, just for illustration).


Suspension partly compressed, steering straight ahead (contact point and how it happens is pretty obvious).

Picture above also shows how little suspension travel there is with Intrax springs. Suspension above is partly compressed with a floor jack -- but not to normal ride height. Normal ride height would put the top of the foamy bumpstop (hidden by swaybar in photo) about 1/8" from contacting the frame. (Total height of foamy, including mounting cup is 2.0 inches!).

Close-up of the tie-rod nut where it has been striking the swaybar.


I'm looking for advise on the problem.

I know everyone is going to say my swaybar endlinks are too short. Yes, I did cut them down, but I did this to make the arm of the swaybar parallel to the ground & exactly perpendicular to the endlink -- when everything is at normal ride height. (I thought this would be a good thing...) With Intrax springs, this is how long (uh, short) the endlinks have to be to achieve this.

I can go with a longer endlink -- but then the swaybar is going to be angled and the endlink is not going to sit perpendicular to the LCA. I think the entire problem is the Intrax springs. I'm thinking about going with something with slightly less drop. As it is, you can see there isn't much suspension travel. Also, even with a longer end-link, the tie-rod could still hit the swaybar. The endlink would have to be long enough to move it up and out of the way of the tie-rod in full lock/full bump. BUT, that still isn't going to move the swaybar out of the plane of the tie-rod stud/nut.

So, maybe the problem is that the Hotchkis bar is too fat? It has a pretty large O.D. because it is tubular. O.D. = 38mm (~ 1.5")

Or, what about the steering stops? Maybe you just have to keep the steering from going all the way to full lock?

-- Dan
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Your springs are too low and your endlinks are incorrect.

I'll note that I've set my car up for handling. My ride height is just a hair (less than 1") below stock. There are good reasons for that ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Ed. This is what I was looking for.

Having had the Intrax springs for a while, I agree that they're just too low. Even w/o the swaybar/tie-rod problem, there just isn't enough suspension travel. I'm surprised that others on the forum have the Intrax and seem love them. Perhaps they only care about the looks? Or, maybe they only drive on really smooth highways?

As for the endlinks, I played around with these a lot when installing. If I make them longer, then:
a) the geometry of the end of the swaybar and the orientation of the endlink to the swaybar will be all screwed up
AND
b)the end of the swaybar will still be in the same plane and can still be contacted by the tie-rod. (At least, it sure looks like this is the case.)

So, I guess the solution is to go with higher springs (and check the whole orientation of all suspension components for contact w/o the springs installed -- but at the full bump of what the new springs would be -- just to make sure.)

I'm sure this has been asked and answered by you a hundred times, but: What springs are you running? Will shocks affect the installed ride height of the springs (I'm using the "boxy" bilsteins).?

Thanks,
-- Dan
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Global West fronts, cut 1/3 (yes, 0.333) of a coil. "Stock" they were a little higher than fresh stock SS springs (fraction of an inch), and 1/3 of a coil resulted in 1.0" drop. And yes, I did the calculations BEFORE I cut ;)

Rear : stock SS springs. Tried a few others, these work best.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Eagle, it sounds to me like the tube clamps need to be rotated down (per the FSM) so they will not hit the bar!

BM--It appears to me that the end link spacer (the tube that the link bolt passes through) is too short. You have given your reasons for the way you have them installed, and it is valid, to a point.

The car was designed with a "normal" ride height, and all clearances between moving parts were established based on the range of production ride heights that were used.

When you installed the lowering springs, the existing components were no longer assured of clearing in all situations, and you have found one of the problem areas.

You have limited choices, in addition to what Ed discussed--ie. raise the car!

1. find a source for a different bar with a bend in this area to account for the clearance situation

2. come up with an end link arrangement that will allow you to raise the bar but not put the link in such a distorted position--perhaps some sort of swivel or ball-joint type link
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cars must be different.
I had the HO bars on my car with Intrax springs.
The only rubbing I got was from the tiore on the sway bar at full lock and the car did rub the speed bumps some.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cars must be different.
I had the HO bars on my car with Intrax springs.
The only rubbing I got was from the tiore on the sway bar at full lock and the car did rub the speed bumps some.
I don't think it's the difference in the car (spindle, frame and control arms should be the same)... it's the difference in the mods. It's a bad combination of springs, endlinks, swaybar frame mounts and the bar.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm about to install "new" spindles, upper and lower LCA's and install Chris' full front end kit with Hotchkis tie-rod links. I've got noticable play up front right now from all the bushings being completely shot. I'm hoping that's accounting for some of the issues. I'll update with pics and touch up the swaybar with some paint so I can quickly see if the problem is still there.

Black Mariah-great pics! I'm not hitting the nut it seems, but the bolt itself. Looks like I'm closer to a solution than you are.

Ed-what size tires are you running up front? I'm getting H&R springs (and 255 50 17's) for the wife's 9C6 and don't want to go through this with her car too, although she's still got a stock swaybar at the moment.

Bill-Thanks for the input. I really like my ride height, so a different swaybar (HO/HA) might be where I look next. Anybody have both of these bars and can take a pic of one over/next to the other to look at dimensioning?
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have the HO/HA bars with the Hotchkis springs and do not have any clearance issues like you mention.

Sorry the suspension is not compressed, but here is pic.
 
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