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Top 10 reasons why Indy date needs to be changed

2K views 95 replies 0 participants last post by  fastss 
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#1 ·
It has come to my attention from a number of ISSCA members
that the date chosen for the 2006 ISSCA National event is "not the best".
Given the surprising swiftness that the venue and date were chosen,
I do not believe it is too late for something to change.
I think that the ISSCA BOD should seriously consider changing
the date because of the following reasons.


#1 July 4th week conflict

-will cut attendance in half
-most attendees will not be able to stay for whole event
-families have vacation plans already
-most extended families ALWAYS get together on this date

#2 ECIRS race at E-town is the same weekend (LISST drag day)

-Die hard drag racers will go to the closest impala racing venue (in this case E-town, NJ)
-Fastest cars on the East Coast will not be able to attend Indy
-LISST drag day is the largest North-East event of the year.
-It's equivalent to having the ISSCA event at the same time as Impalafest

#3 Week-day events are inconvenient

-Cuts down on local attendance because of work commitments
-Die-hards will come from Cali or the East Coast anyway
-Die-hards will come no matter the day of week

#4 Four day event is too long

-Most Impala owners come out for 1 or 2 events in
which their car specializes then leave

#5 The event can be completed in a weekend

-Day 1: Car show/Sound off, road race.
-Day 2: Autocross, Dragrace

#6 Besides Christmas and Thanksgiving, there could be
no better date for people to be unavailable.

#7 There are 11 other weekends in the summer, pick one.

#8 Who picked this date?

#9 Burnouts won't be as much fun with all the fireworks in the air.

#10 On a different weekend, we might actually get to race at the brickyard.

IF YOU AGREE, POST YOUR THOUGHTS HERE!

Nabil Guffey
Mechanicsville, MD
 
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#3 ·
Yep....agree on ALL points made by Nab.

Hell, I live a managable distance from Indy, but because of the fact that the event dates are straight out of left field, I might not be able to attend. I am sure I am not alone.

A little spin on a classic line:

What if they held an event...and nobody came?
 
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#4 ·
Reasons #1,2,3,4 & 6 are big. To all those involved with scheduling the event, please review these items.

I would speculate these dates were available only because most who are experienced with planning large events realize the effects reasons #1 & 6 have on events of this type. 4th of July is the most popular holliday of the year for staying in ones own back yard.

Most likely, only the diehards will show & the event will fizzle into a relivitely small gathering, or ast least small compared to what it could be if scheduled at a proper time.

Events like this can be used to generate interest & new memberships etc. when done properly. Automatically cutting attendence isn't the best way to reap these benefits.
 
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#5 ·
Nab,

Thanks for starting this thread and I'm happy to see the early replies all going in the same direction. I too agree that these dates should be changed to maximize attendance and minimize frustration.

I'm not the only one (but I am speaking for myself right now), who has been both ticked AND disappointed about ISSCAs date selection for Vegas-2004 and MM-2005. The 2004 gathering was a few days after the GM Nats in Carlisle, PA and the 2005 gathering was a little over two weeks later than this same event this year. ISSCA was asked to be sensitive to the fact that the GM Nats is planned by a third party outside of the B-Body community and that we do not have control over that date. So for the past two years, a series of unfortunate scheduling logistics resulted in these events being very closely spaced.

You can imagine my ire starting to rise when I walk into MM Registration on Day 1 and see dates July 4-8, 2006 for Indy already silk-screened onto T-shirts (I bought 2 anyway, but that's not the point). This is almost like having a good friend or family member plan their wedding day on a holiday weekend (and I KNOW I'm not the only one this has happened to, right?!). It does not make sense (for all of the reasons Nab listed and then some). Fortunately, this time we (the members) have an opportunity to postpone "the wedding". Sure its going to be a few more headaches for the BoD, but after 3 years, I would've hoped that someone was listening/remembering East Coast feedback before all the pre-planning was done and the unconfirmed dates announced....
 
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#6 ·
i got the idea from the general issca meeting at MM that changing date/venue was not an option. i wasn't pleased as it's certainly easier and possibly more beneficial racing wise to attend the lisst drag day, also an ecirs event. trust me you weren't the only one suprised that the apparent dates and venue had already been chosen without the input from the members or other chartered clubs. i can see the benefits of what the BoD is trying to accomplish in getting the planning out a year and half in advance, but i can also see that in their haste to do so, they're alienating a fair amount of the members that their direction should be for and by.
rock on, rus
 
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#7 ·
I know it's hard to get a good date especially at a huge place like IRP. So I'm good with the date and will make it back to the LiSSt drag day too.

Reasons 1 thru 10 why I'm headed for Indy in 2006....it's Indy and it's the Nats. !!
 
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#8 ·
I HIGHLY doubt I will drive to Indy next year... not because of the car fire but because I won't have the time off available like I did this year.

With that said, I'd be flying in and spectating. If I don't expect to see the majority of the east coast guys there, I doubt I will attend. With the last 2 Nats, the company of the east coast guys really made my experience that much more enjoyable. Without them there, I don't see a reason to attend.

What it comes down to is that it's not the activities that make it a good event, it's the people. All the activities is just icing on the cake.

I hope ISSCA has an alternate plan because I forsee a HUGE drop in attendance... whether due to the July 4 holiday or the LISST Drag Day event already scheduled.

Noel Haro
#1458
 
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#9 ·
I will be there.


When the dates are changed.

A small contributing factor keeping me from Mountain Madness was that it was too close to the 4th of July (along with a lot of other things). I thought I'd make it work, but to no avail.

"With the last 2 Nats, the company of the east coast guys really made my experience that much more enjoyable. "

That's no lie!!! when BK, Nabster, and the gang showed up in Vegas out in the parking lot the first night, the fun started, and didn't stop until it was time to go home! Hell, they were there for 10 minutes, unloaded a 9C1 off of a trailer, and did a burnout with Nabster hanging off of the side of the car. After that, we drank beer, and harassed Noel via cell phone for a while.
 
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#10 ·
Add one more member that's disappointed in the date selection for 2006. My guess is this week was the only one on the calendar that all venues (and hotel) could be booked. Price could have been a deciding factor as well.

We're talking about THE summer holiday here...it'd be a LOT tougher for some of us guys (like me) to attend.

Consider this - how many members need to register/show up to make the event successful? According to what I heard at the general meeting, the 2003 and 2004 Nationals lost a good deal of $$. 2005 probably came closer to breaking even...but what if only 20 or 30 people show up in 2006? Not only could that prove to be a financial disaster...but could adversely affect, or even jeapordize, future National events.

BUT...it's a whole year away! Heck, the venue for 2005 wasn't finally decided until Dec 2004, right? If this is the way that the membership feels...

...isn't there plenty of time to find a different week on the calendar? Even if prices are higher...I'd pay a few extra $$ for the convenience of not having to drive 700 miles during one of the busiest travel periods of the year.

...couldn't a different city be considered? What about Cleveland, Cincy, St.Louis, Chicago...there are plenty of similar or larger cities in that area of the country that could provide the venues neccessary.

And, the fact that LISST drag day conflicts with this week, for me, just about makes this issue something that must be addressed. This topic was enough to make BK use two smileys, for cryin' out loud...TWO! That's gotta say something in and of itself.

MEMBERS SPEAK UP!! Now's the time to deal with this...while there's plenty of time to make changes.

Respectfully requesting the BOD consider this, and take the members point of view into consideration, I await their official response to this thread.
 
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#11 ·
Since I'm not an ISSCA member I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post my opinion, so if Not I will delete my response

I'd go ONLY if the dates were changed. If you want a good turnout, like mentioned there's no other worse time to hold an event such as Nationals on the 4th of July. Do these dates get decided by someone pulling them out of a hat, instead of sitting down and thinking about it. I have an idea let's have the event on Xmas :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

4th of July IMO is about eating BBQ ribs, and throwing bottle rockets at my brother, not standing out in the unforgiving heat waiting to race down the track.


Of course they could leave the date the same, and find out what happens when no one actually shows up for the event.

Matt
 
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#12 ·
I get to add to my opinion-post above...
In my opinion a large number of ISSCA members and future ISSCA memebers will attend the INDY Nats next year and enjoy it, not just the diehards. And many will not be able to attend because of the date.
You'll see posted here the majority being that they cannot attend and do not like the date. That's the nature of this post. You'll not see the posts of the ones who will attend because that's the nature and dynamics of message boards.

INDY has been being planned since last year and that is good. I fully respect the full BOD decision on the dates and understand that INDY is limited on available event dates.

If many cannot attend due to the posted reasons then I respect that and agree it will be less enjoyable without your presence.

Karl
 
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#13 ·
I continue to wonder why this club keeps screwing around with venues and dates.

Make this whole issue easy. St. Louis on a fixed annual date for a couple years until this club can get a better grip on this issue.

St. Louis:

Centrally located
ALL events can be held at the track
Covered drive-thru Car Show
Easy accommodations fairly close to track
Fix the date annually and the 'date' problem solves itself
And on and on and on.....

Why does ISSCA do this every year? i.e. change sites? Why ask for trouble? Go with what works. Pretty soon it will run it's self; everything falls into place from prior experience.

NOT saying make St. Louis permanent - just take this route for the next couple years to see if our club will survive.

One has to seriously question some of this clubs decisions - at least in my book - and I do still seriously question them:

Tulsa? Could an event been any hotter?

Vegas? We missed the heat target at Tulsa, so lets go further west. BTW, what happened to the 300+ Californians that were supposed to show?

(Where is the majority of our market share? [east of the Mississippi]

Indy @4th July? Hey, I want to do Indy as much as the next guy, but...if y'all wanted to pick a bad week in the summer to do this you could not have picked a better one. Oh, wait, is it because it was the only available time to utilize Indy?...so we take it in the shorts in order to satisfy 'we want to use this track'. Automatically, right out of the gate, you just handicapped your attendance numbers.

St. Louis gang. At least for a couple years until this club can get it's decision making process sorted out. St.L works. Everyone knows where it is and how much fun we can have there (anyone remember what a parking lot burnout is? - seemed to have missed those this year).

Location, Facilities, and REASONABLE LODGING. Or we can continue going down this annual path of 'trying' to keep everyone happy by moving the event around each year, to all these questionable locations, instead of going with what we know WORKS!

This annual event could be so easy - why make it so hard.

My suggestion is St. Louis for the next year or two to afford this club a better opportunity to make money while still providing the membership ALL 5 events they have come to expect at an excellent facility. Go somewhere else every third year or so if you want variety.

Stick with what works, and grow from there.

BTW, best events I've attended since joining this community have been in St. L - both of them!

doug wood

Common Sense is Brilliant
Why is the world growing darker daily?
 
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#14 ·
I agree with you, Doug.
The guys in St. Louis WANT to throw the national event.
You are right, why fight them when their enthusiasm
is our greatest asset.
It would be great to have the event there each year.

Doug Wood said:
I want to do Indy as much as the next guy, but...
was [this] the only available time to utilize Indy?
I'd like to run at Indy, too, but the funny thing is that
we are not even scheduled to use "the brickyard"
Indy 500 race track for the road race or anything.
Since we aren't really using "Indy", you'd think
other weekends would be available.
 
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#16 ·
I can only echo (and save a lot of keystrokes) Nab's feelings and glad he alerted WAIL to this. I couldn't agree more with him - also Bob, Joe, and especially Doug Wood, VERY well articulated.

I don't participate much on this Forum, but I personally know fellow WAILers Karl & Nabster. I spend most of my "Forum" talk with my own WAIL list folk as I've done since WAIL was formed in 1996, long before ISSCA was ever conceived, and was conceived already with local clubs established for that matter. Without those local clubs there would have been no ISSCA. My thing here in WAIL land (home of the BBHP)has been as Event Creator, Coordinator and Organizer over the years. Actually one of the local Events that I created was the first meeting with Josh K and seeing BBHP#1 in it's purely formative stages. So I'm familiar with Event "planning".

I'm begininning to wonder about the phrase or motto of ISSCA and how committed they are to live up to that: "By the Members, For The Members". Seems like there was no "plan" that the general memebership knew about except to be told, this is what is going to be. Say What?

Just my .02..

Ron Post
ISSCA #242
WAIL / various titles
Gaithersburg, MD
 
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#17 ·
Ron Post. Some people cannot be pleased. No matter what the date Ron, No matter what the location Ron, you still will have obligations and personal matters and rightly so that you tend to those matters. There is no perfect date to please all but there is a date and it pleases some.
I think you would have enjoyed the ISSCA Nats at Pocono Ron. But it is always best to tend to more important matters with home and family.

But for those that can attend next year at Indy it will be a great time and as good as we can make it.

Thanks for the support.

Ya'll support ISSCA and try to attend if you can.

If you can't then we will miss you and hopfully next time the date and venue will work out.

Karl
 
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#18 ·
I agree with Nab on every point and with Doug Wood on every point as well...St. Louis would work out wonderfully...until ISSCA can get itself turning a real profit that it can show on paper and properly manage itself and it's events, thats the best bet it has for survival. July 4th weekend is always an extremely commited weekend for everybody in this country with family get togethers, memorial events, parties with friends...the biggest car show in the northeast, if not the entire east coast is also July 4th weekend...New Englands Summer Nationals...you won't find another show like it, and ISSCA cannot compete with it.

You move the venue to St. Louis, and have it the following weekend and EVERY problem listed in this thread goes away. There's still 50 weeks until then, that sounds like plenty of time to plan accordingly, find a host hotel and get the word out to members.

So rather than say an e-mail was sent out asking for presentations on where to hold the event (that 99% of the club didn't see...so it had to be a pretty selective e-mail), why doesn't the club stop being so political and useless, and send out a simple post card to every member with 2 sets of checkboxes...one set for the venue and one set for the date. Just make sure that you include that if we go to Indy, we don't even get to use the brickyard, and that if we go to St. Louis we DO get to use a real Nascar track (which I'd bet an overwhelming majority of past ISSCA national attendies will agree is probably the most exciting part of the event).

Ron Post...I couldn't agree more with what you said at the end of the post with respect to the seemingly non-existant plan for where and when the next nationals would be. Seems to me the President of the club should be able to answer questions better than he did at the meeting, and also to not scold members like we're 5 year olds (I'm only 22...but I'm certainly not 5) when we correct him on another issue as well...but I said it after SSHS4, and I tried to forget about it after an e-mail exchange, and I'll say it again now that the event in the Poconos has passed (and this time I won't forget it)...he is ALWAYS looking down his nose at the "general membership" of the club, and ignoring the fact that the future of the club, and any chance for success for the club is fading further away.

Put it up for a vote, or there will be 5 people at indy with their thumbs up their asses and akward looks on their faces asking each other "so...what do we do if it rains"...thats my completely honest opinion, sorry if I'm a little rude about it.

Mike O'Donnell
ISSCA #640
 
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#19 ·
I've said it once, and I'll say it again - these mid-week event dates are downright dumb. It doesn't "help" anyone except a very few very long distance drivers - who'd still come to the event regardless of date. Instead, it essentially penalizes local-ish or "day's drive" participants by requiring them to take extra days of vacation that wouldn't be needed for a weekend event. Since the long distance guys make up a small percentage of participants, it's seems to me to be more logical to tailor the dates to those who would make up the largest attendance and, subsequently, provide the largest amount of event income. I, personally, won't be attending a national event while it's still held during mid-week, even if it's held in an easily accessible place like Indy or St. Louis.

The issue of being over the 4th wouldn't be an issue for me, as I annually attend the GoodGuys Des Moines show that's always held the first weekend in July and occasionally falls on the 4th.
 
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#21 ·
I think no matter what you will never please and accomodate everyone

It is kind of different for me working in real estate and such affairs, plus weekend family stuff, I actually prefer weekdays to do these Impala club things. I prefer to travel and travel cheaper during the week.
However, maybe my situation will change and i cant go on weekday - who knows now.

It seems to me the ISSCA show has always pretty much been during the week in the past. Truth is for various reasons I could not ever make it due to busy work, etc. Even when I had lived 3 hours from the Vegas event I couldnt go. I really hope now that I am better located to places, we can go this time around and that plenty of people will attend.

I will say that it can be good or bad the July 4th week cause many of you can get off work easier, but many of you may be planning family stuff and gatherings??

Under our current situation we live in - due to mainly our work, that Jul 4th date is a great time for us not to miss as much work.
Except my wife has to be in town every Thur & Sunday no matter what - again that could change too by next yr -
For now we try to plan fun days out on possible Mon-Wed.

Whatever you do please consider the weather - pls no snow or tornadoe season or whatever
 
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#22 ·
Mike, I respectfully disagree with you here. I do feel that there will be a record attendance at the 2006 INDY ISSCA NATS and only some won't be able to attend becasue of the July 4th problem. And that is a bummer that some cannot attend.

Don't forget that the people in the INDY area are the ones that want to host the Nats and they should be commended and thanked for that. Thank you INDY people and surrounding area and States.

And you guys are hurting my hopes that we go to differnt areas of the country (which I really enjoy).

Don't forget that ISSCA is not and never will be making money or profits. I think they are doing pretty dang well with the member dues and hosting the NATS. Our club is not supposed to make profits. All moneys made go directly back to the members in forms such as SScene magazines and ad space in national magazines and paying for event facilities and things like that. That's all I would think that our national organization should be doing. I'm glad for the work ISSCA does. Thanks guys and gals.

Back to the people in the area of INDY. Guys, don't forget them. They deserve to have their Nats and we should support them.

Mike, I'll bet you a dinner that I kick your butt in one of those indy go-kart tracks even though you are the hot foot in the stock class for road course.
 
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#23 ·
Karl;

You know I usually agree with you on most things, but you know you don't ALWAYS have to take the company line ;) ALL the time! I think you are not looking at the big picture.

Look, if the event were on a date when I couldn't make it, then yes, tough nuts to me and anyone else that couldn't make it. That's life in the big city, I get it. Life isn't always fair.

Even though July 4th is a RIDICULOUSLY STUPID DATE I was still making preliminary plans to attend. You know, softening up the wife, etc etc.

HOWEVER...this year LISST was privately pissed about ISSCA stepping on our toes and having the ISSCA event 2 days after our CHARITY DRIVEN Drag Day. It DEFINITELY made some people have to pick one or the other. Which sucked. I don't even think any ISSCA Execs even bothered to come out and check it out even though they were all coming to town the next day at the latest. Whatever. No biggie, sometimes there are unintentional slights.

So to find out this year that ISSCA once AGAIN chose to step on LISST Drag Day, a NINE year tradition that pre-dates ISSCA and most other Impala related events, really pisses us off.

Bill Harper sent me an email reply saying that we didn't put the LISST date on the calendar, and can we move OUR date, etc etc. The more we (LISST) discussed it, the angrier we got.

If ISSCA doesn't know by now when LISST Drag Day is (as I said, a 9 year tradition that is ALWAYS the 2nd Saturday of July) then you know what: They really ARE out of touch with the Impala community as everyone claims. How sad.

Because as far as I am concerned, LISST Drag Day is in the top 2 or 3 Impala events in the COUNTRY every year! Can you imagine what would happen if ISSCA stepped on IMPALAFEST? Adrian Madkin would personally put his foot in someone's azz! There would be public lynchings.

But since no one from ISSCA even comes to our event (except Chuck Spera, he came all the way from Michigan to show us our props) then I guess they don't realize what a big event it is or the importance of what we do. We raised about $5000 this year for charity. That wasn't a typo. FIVE LARGE. With only 80 or so attendees (down from our usual 100 or so - I wonder why?). Maybe ISSCA should ask us to run an event for them?
But I digress...

And ISSCA execs have the balls to wonder why MM attendance from the east was lukewarm at best? It's because no one even knows what ISSCA is on the east coast unless you take it upon yourself to attend a national event. Besides the SScene and the annual event, there is NO perceived reason to be an ISSCA member. Believe me, we polled our club members. We begged them to join. The response was always the same. I can only go to one event, and we are going to Carlisle or LISST Drag Day or whatever. The dates are bad and who is ISSCA anyway? Those comments alone are an eye opener. ISSCA has ZERO east coast presence, and virtually ZERO Forum presence. LISST members hardly even know who they are and rightly so.

Anyway, the fact that ISSCA is once again not being For the Members By the Members by going head to head with one of their own chartered clubs events and one of the Impala communities biggest events... well I guess that tells us what the deal is.

I heard Rick Matthews made some kind of reference to "only" 5 LISST members being there anyway and making up 4% of the attendance although there were more LISST members than that there. In just this pic alone I see more than 5 LISST members. And that doesn't include Russell and Skip and Scott A, who withdrew from MM due to personal issues plus any other LISST members who were there who weren't in the picture that I forgot were there.



As it was, LISST member MM attendance got hurt by ISSCA putting MM so close to our Drag Day. Plus by putting it so close (2 weeks) to the GM Nats in Carlisle (which is also heavily attended by LISST members) they hurt attendance. And then, after they hamper our attendance by picking a date so close to our big event, Rick then smugly claims "well LISST didn't have huge attendance at MM anyway" as a reason to blow off the fact that they are stepping on our event again. They make it sound like it was in our backyard, but MM was over 150 miles away for most LISST members. When it was at E-Town it was a lot more do-able for LISSTers because A. it was closer and B. it was a venue that LISST members are used to going to because that's where we hold our event.

Sorry for the rant, but it pisses me off. I do too much recruiting and promoting for ISSCA to let this one slide. I can personally name at least 5 - 10 attendees who would not have gone to MM unless I talked them into it or chided them into going. Plus, next year will mean not only LISST members missing Indy but also any serious ECIRS racer too since the LISST Drag Day is usually the 2nd highest points race of the year due to rounds raced because of attendance.

Rant over. Holy ****, where's the Tylenol?

Bill
ECIRS # 1
ECTM # 2
ISSCA # 1047
 
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#24 ·
The date does not bother me as I cleared it with the family as soon as I came back from MM, but I can not say the same about a future job though. I had a great time at MM and I will do my best to make it to Indy next year and if posiable LISST drag day also.

Originally posted by Karl Ellwein:
Mike, I'll bet you a dinner that I kick your butt in one of those indy go-kart tracks even though you are the hot foot in the stock class for road course.
Hey Karl is that challenge open to me to? I did take 3rd in prepared and I am always up for some friendly competition, the only thing is if you win dinner might be at Wendys instead of Macaroni Gril. :D

Michael A. Casino Jr.
# 1925
 
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#25 ·
"...Besides the SScene and the annual event, there is NO perceived reason to be an ISSCA member. Believe me, we polled our club members..."

Funny you mention that BK, we're having similar issues here within the CSI gang on a smaller scale. From what I hear, there are a few local folks that feel the same way, and have decided that there is no reason to hurry out and renew membership. I'm not going to discuss their reasons on here, as they are THEIR reasons, not mine, nor do I agree with all of them, but I do see 100% how they came to their decision. I made a post last fall when talking about the tardiness of the SScene. It pretty much said what I quoted you posting today. ISSCA sometimes does things that alienate a large percentage of it's members, especially those who only see ISSCA through the mail. That needs to change.
 
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#26 ·
I dont believe the date needs to be changed. If that is all that is available, then at that expense, we have to "pay" for it some how in a negative way. Kinda like this years' events taking place during the week. This was the first year I attended (part) of the events, and the ONE weekday I spent there shot me in the foot as far as being behind schedule. Praise the lord for it taking place just about in my home state.

At least if "we" can make it to the '06 nats, I know that not much time would need to be taken out of work/ being the event is being held somewhat during and throughout a holiday weekend.

Folks If it must be...so be it.

Instead of making plans to disgust issca (remember the guys that run the CLUB are YOU!!!) Make plans to bring the family and have a REALLY interesting holiday weekend! We should rent a huge BBQ' and have some of the masters at it do the cookin! There are PLENTY of ways to bring the wife, kids,and have a blast doing what everyone here loves best! Take the family to a theme park (I hear you folks have some WICKED tall supercoasters!), take em to watch Karl and BKahuna go at it on the go cart track (good un karl!), and if all else fails...find something to blow up or set fire to, hehe, after all it is July 4th


I for one know that we will push our hardest to get out there, Simply becuase we have quite a few customers in the OH, IN, and Michigan areas that would give anything for us to show up


If the holiday is more important than spending time at the nats, it is just that. Your choice, that's all, no Tylenol needed
 
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