[Ratmaster]

Tenor- I understand that it is overkill. My thoughts are based around the fact that overkill solves problems before they begin. My thoughts were if I use a 3.6lc KB then I could make that blower work VERY little, in comparison to an eaton or Maggie, and thus their would be less heat and therefore, hopefully, less problems. I could be wrong here. Tell me if I am. For example: I'd rather spend the money on a ring and pinion that could hold 1400HP and never need it, than have a ring and pinion good for 750HP, and have it fail, even though I'm only making 700HP.

Jeff- I wouldn't get a headache lol. I LOVE this stuff but perhaps that is a conversation we could save for an in person or an over the phone chat. As for the rest of you're post.... I will take more time to come up with a real reply. Don't be so damn modest though

 

[Jeff Green]

http://www.corneltechweb.com/superchargerphaseii.htm

Here are some pics of a roots type from a guy on ls1tech. IIRC he was going to reproduce these components.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/weiand-142-roots-blower-on-a-96-ta-lt1-fits-under_59340.htm
This was a video that i wasn't sure was still around, A weiand 142 blower on an LT1
Chris

Thanks Chris!! The video looks as bad as something I would do with a camera I didn't like that guys solution with running the air feed over the top of the screw. Too small and a heat trap.

The pictures look more like I was thinking of. Not sure what it was in but the TB needs to be out where you can get to it better. But good engieneer on the air feed and show car quality!!

Ratmaster, get the specs on both or all screws that may be the answers. I don't disagree with your thoughts or the smaller unit idea. If it can work then buy big so you have more for if or when needed. You won't know until you get the specs which is really best. I would also think the unit that moves more air is also larger and will have more clearence issues. All that factors into what is best.

 

[Ratmaster]

"2350CFM with their mammoth Inlet system and throttle body" What does that mean to you Jeff?

Here's a good tech page on their site:

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Tech_Info_pg/layouts/LC_pg.htm

If you care to take a look it seems like it has a lot of great info.

Rocko- Cornel was the person with the lt1 FBody I referred to in my early posts. Still hoping to hear back from him after I emailed him but I am sure he is very busy. He is done with the roots setup btw and is now in the process of a beautiful twinscrew build using a whipple. The street fire video isn't working for me for some reason...

Tenor- I am in no way trying to start an argument but KB's website says that the 3.6 is reserved for high horsepower applications and/or engines 5.4L and above. The smaller blowers they say are more well suited to the 4.6's in the GT's and cobras. You can find the exact quote through the above link under the headline "All out Racing". Again I am not saying you are wrong.... I am just paraphrasing what their website says.

 

[Jeff Green]

While I'm thinking about it lets get some ground rules cleared, you can list any you have.

I really don't know you and you really don't know me. The reason I'm not diving into this to spend the time to get the data thats needed is because of that. For all I know this is a dream of yours but not one that can be funded to happen. So for now you can get the data and if it doesn't go then I'll have it for the next guy that wants to do this. When a screw shows up at my door to use to get the intake going I will not be this way

You may not know enough about me. I'm sure you can find lots of people on here that would say, his car is always broke so why would you want him to build your car? The answer is thats true!! My car is always broke, alot!! I'm not your normal person and set goals others call crazy or impossible. But the only way to fix the problems is to have failures so you know what to fix. So if I make a pass and it works!! The next pass is with the next change in the car that may not work. But it goes faster every year with those same basic parts. It's how it ever ran 9's with this stuff and if the gods are not against me, how it will run 8's shortly.

My point in the statement above is thats MY CAR. I will not put anything in your car thats not proven and will not be on the fine line of working or not. So don't think any of my issue could become your issues, unless you want to go almost 2 seconds faster than you do

At some point I'm not going to call you Ratmaster so you will have to give me your name. I know thats the Forum/internet game but as you can see by my screen name I'm not a big fan of that.

Take the project in bites if needed. Don't set goals that will bankrupt you. No issue with a project like this taking a year or two.

I'm not going to do this for free but I'm not going to charge you anything cloe to what a shop would. It is a fun project for me also so it's going to work. If we say it will run 10's with everthing in it then it will. I don't start projects and not finish them.

Your turn

 

[Jeff Green]

"2350CFM with their mammoth Inlet system and throttle body" What does that mean to you Jeff?

Here's a good tech page on their site:

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Tech_Info_pg/layouts/LC_pg.htm

.

That means way more HP then you want!! But until we see the heat graph it may not be a bad thing and gives you more for later if you want it.

 

[Ratmaster]

My name is Jack Keane.

I completely understand your stance at this point. Frankly, when you first started to mention that you would be willing to do this build, I was thinking to myself, who is this guy??? He is in Indiana, and although you had very good answers from the beginning, I thought to myself, I'm in Mass and I just now signed up to this site asking for advice on a topic that most would shrug off as insane. Why would some guy almost immediately offer his help???

After Googling your name I started to realize why though. You had a similar idea for your build and I think through all my long and detailed posts you could see that I was determined to do this the way I have been dreaming or not do it at all. As the gmhightech article said "the kind of sort who bucks convention". I think, no I know, you understand why I want to build it the way I do. And I agree you do not know me and I am in no way expecting you to do any of the legwork for me until we can get to a point where we both decide, in union, to make a go at this. That is why I have said things like, "if you care to take a look", because I know you have no obligation or reason to read through that page at this point. I understand your time is valuable and at this time we are still very much in the "dream" phase (that's why this isn't in the build section yet). There is no guarantee we will decide to make a go of it and as such I wouldn't expect you to invest any real time or effort into the project at this point. Although, I am sure it goes without saying, that if I can make it happen, I certainly will. I know I am somewhat reiterating what you have said but my perogative in doing so is to show you that I am aware of where you stand. I will say that I appreciate you having invested so much time to answer all of my questions so far. There was no motivation or reward for you to do so and this makes me believe the only reason you have is because you have a REAL interest in this idea.

As far as people saying yay or nay on you building my motor has to go.... I think there are enough threads and posts made by you and others over the years to allow me to make an informed decision by myself. I havnt read a fraction of it yet and for some reason the oldest threads only show page numbers and no actual posts. The main reason why I think it would be wonderful for you to do this build is because your car has already tried and tested the majority of parts I would like to use in my build. That goes for the Transmission and 10 Bolt also. Believe me I see the value in using parts that you are running at 1500hp in my application!

So needless to say, I understand where we stand, and I also understand that while I can read ALOT about you, you can't read anything about me. So the only thing you have to go off of is this thread. I know the proof is in the pudding and I really hope we can get a screw to your door in the not toooooo distant future. And I do NOT expect anyone to work for free. I wouldn't work for free so why should you?

That being said, the project will DEFINITELY be done in bites. As I said I plan to mimic financing and as such will be doing the car in sections hopefully. I also have mentioned that I am in no rush as I would like everything to be done right if it's going to be done at all. That's why, after I get the specs from KB, I would like to immediately start getting my costs lined up in terms of the rear end, suspension, driveshaft, and transmission. Like I said I'd like to get the car setup from the torque converter back and drive it (or ship it if I have to...) out to you. After some more research I will send my tranny to Rossler at your suggestion and I would like to go with internals similar if not the same to yours even though I will (almost certainly) never run anywhere close to 1500hp. Same goes for the level of parts in the rear and of course for the motor down the road. Like you said, the other benefit to going overkill now is that it will be easier to make more power down the road if I ever desire. The main benefit for me, for now, however is reliability!

Are we on the same page?

 

[Ratmaster]

Oh and let's not forget I don't even have the project car yet and that could take a good few months to find in the first place. So nothing is going to happen to fast here. That's ok though because I have plenty to read and stuff to figure out. What you said about spending a lot more time planning than building really hits home for me. So if I'm starting to get ahead of myself don't be afraid to use your experience to help me pull in the reins lol. And please if I am wrong when I post something please tell me. The reason I am on here is because I do not have the knowledge or experience to do this myself so this goes for anyone..... If you see something wrong or something you disagree with please bring it up!

 

[tenor39]

I posted what the engineers at Kenne Bell told me when I was building my engine. I would talk with them before deciding on anything. I had no intent of racing my car, so that might be the difference. As Jeff said, the larger blowers are physically bigger, so getting it to fit will be an issue. If you have the time, money, and a good fabricator, anything is possible.

 

[Ratmaster]

Tenor- That is interesting. I will try to clear up the confusion when I call them this week. I agree that the 3.6 is almost certainly physically bigger the the 2.8 or smaller screws. I will take Jeff's suggestion that I obtain the heat graphs and dimensions of the three different blowers they offer along with the CFM figures. So perhaps a smaller blower will end up being the right choice when we consider the dimensions. I hope we can make the big boy fit though I've read a little more on the liquid cooling of the KB's and it does indeed cool the air going through the blower although I am not sure yet how much difference it makes. I have more reading to do on their site before I even make the call.

On another note, what do you have a Kenne Bell installed in? If you do not mind me asking. That is of course if you did end up using the KB on your motor and not some other type.

 

[Ratmaster]

So it has been a year since I first started this thread...

I am writing with discouragement as I have been searching daily (and I mean every day I search CL and autotrader country wide) for the perfect car! I've missed on two Fleetwoods. One out of my own stupidity and the second by no fault of my own. I only wanted to let anyone, if there was anyone, know who was interested in this thread that the dream is still very much alive.

In the meantime I have bought an 03 Z06 and its a good thing seeing that I have yet to acquire my dream car.

In November I missed a red 1995 24k mile Fleetwood Brougham from Texas that had every original service record and was being sold by the Caddy dealer who sold it new to the original owner. The records were shown on the clean carfax as being performed between every 3 and 4 miles without missing one scheduled appointment. The man who bought the car from under me re-listed it on auto-trader, advertised it at a 13k dollar asking price and it was gone less than a week later. He paid 4900.... The asking price from the dealer who was selling the car for the wife of the lifelong customer who had past on. It lasted 2 hours on auto-trader.

The 2nd was from the Son of a deceased woman who had only driven her Calypso Green (same color as a Fleetwood brougham I once had, with factory chrome wheels, and beige interior matching identically) 95 brougham 18,000 miles before parking it in her driveway for her remaining years. The son had covered the car with a tarp shortly after, and subsequently the vinyl top was destroyed, the chrome was peeling from the rear bumper, and the hood would have needed to be painted.

As a result the only thing I could not stomach was painting the hood. In hindsight I wish I had bought it. The interior was impeccable save for the cracked dash pad. I had it at a fantastic price but what I really want is completely original condition with under 30k miles in flawless condition.

I still look! Every day and have even bought 4 b and d body's in the mean time that I have turned quite a profit on by being so diligent and, most importantly, willing to travel.

So anyhow, I just wanted to let anyone, if anyone, who cared know this will happen! As soon as I buy the right car I will sell the Z06 and start building my perfect car. For now I have a flawless burgundy on burgundy loaded one owner 96 Roadmaster with 64k miles, factory G80 sedan, (with every option but the tow pack as far as I can tell) to drive.... and sell for a gain (;

 

[Ratmaster]

I'm not sure if anyone who was watching this thread remembers it at this point. However, I believe I've found the car. It is a 1995 Triple black v4p tow pack car with 18k miles and in museum quality condition! I know because I've had a licensed appraiser go see the car for me since it is so far away in a nicer climate than NE. I've put a deposit on the car and will know by Wednesday if the deal will go through. I will spare the details but I am 99.9% sure that I will be the second owner of what may be the best optioned and cleanest condition of any Fleetwood left in the country (besides Matt Garrett's Fleetwood which if you are familiar was the last Fleetwood to ever roll off of the assembly line and currently has 802 miles on the clock).

I'm sure many people have dismissed this thread as a pure pipe dream but the biggest hurdle (finding THE car) is almost over. With the help of these great communities I will, over the coming years, be building the worlds fastest (1/4 mile) factory appearing Fleetwood in showroom new condition. And it will be a twin screw, oh yes!

 

[Bigdawg70]

If it is not sold I believe the guy on lls1tch is selling his custom setup he had made .

 

[Ratmaster]

Would you happen to have a link handy?

 

[Bigdawg70]

Sorry I dont it was in parts section. But that site moves very slow on my phone.

 

[Ratmaster]

I found it. I had been following that cars progress for some time. I wonder why he lost interest? Seems a bit fishy, I'm not by any means making accusations, but after all of that work he's just giving up on it? Me thinks it didnt run well but that is purely my speculation and is not based on any hard evidence.

Anywho I'm in the poor house if this car comes through. Damn guy knows what he has and Id have a hard time telling anyone the price. Thank god my bank considers a 95 a classic car now that the 15's are hitting the lots. Otherwise it would never have worked. I will need to sell the Z06 before any parts purchases can be made. I also have to buy a carcoon, a battery tender, a dash pad mat at the very least before I begin buying parts.

I book marked the listing though and if its still around in a month or two I will buy it for the future. However I would like to have the intake manifold professionally engineered.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention!

 

[Ratmaster]

Does anyone know how to post pictures on here? I can't seem to be able from my phone or tablet and I do not own a laptop. I could email them if someone didnt mind posting them here. It's of the 18k mile triple black v4p.

 

[SStreetking94]

Time and Money

Seems like it might almost be easier to swap to LSx since there's a ton of blowers made for them. You could pick up an iron 5.3 or 6.0 dirt cheap and all the conversion parts are available now since it's been done enough times. It should also be easier to tune.

I second this notion. The amount of money your gonna have in just getting that lt1 to handle the boost will be ridiculous not to mention the reworking of the ignition system and the tuning (stand alone or retuning the factory ecm). You can swing a supercharged ls in less time for far less money and still drive it everyday. In fact this is exactly what I'll be doing to mine. Found a parts donor truck(6.0L with the 4l80e) on craigslist for 2 grand.

 

[Ratmaster]

It's not about what is the best route. I know this is not the best route to what I hope will be the worlds fastest Fleetwood. It is about building what I want. This is my dream car. I also could just buy a dodge viper and that would surely be more cost effective. I want to say the car has the complete origional drive train that has been built up. There are very few cars out there that can be made able to handle such power levels using the factory housings with built internals. The car will not be a race car. It will be a show car that ocassionally makes it to the race track once or twice a year. I have had this idea since I bought my first bbody in 2007. Since I have bought an fbody and a corvette z06 but they sat in the rain because they are not special cars. I'm sure it's hard to understand as it is far from logical and trust me all of my friends think I'm off my rocker buying a "grandpa car" when I have that "sick z06 man". But it's different strokes for different folks. If they had continued to build B and D body's until the year 2000 and the later ones had lsx engines you can put money down that that's what I would be building instead. No one really understands when I say it is my favorite car ever built. What I mean by that is that there is no car I would rather have. Not even a 1996 Blue and White GTS Viper. Not a Countach. Not the new hellcat challenger, not a 68 hemi charger, not a 66 Biscayne with the L72 (?? I think) 427. And those are my other favorite cars but nothing in my mind compares to a 95 or 96 (hate the 94 mirrors) Triple Black V4P Brouham.

Jeff Green's Impala could have been accomplished by a motor swap. But as I tell all of my foreign car friends. If your first mod has to be a motor swap then you bought the wrong car. The correct drivetrain in Green's SS is what makes it so special. At least in my mind. Maybe I'm old school, I ABSOLUTLEY hate when people put modern motors in vintage cars. Would a 68 Camaro be cooler if it had an LS7 or LS9 or would it be cooler with a 396 stroked and bored with a Weiand on top? The answer is a matter of personal opinion. My opinion is that the latter is the only way to go. You may say differently and that's great because wouldn't car shows be very boring if every modified car was built the same way?

 

[Ratmaster]

Also, this car has seen about 800 miles per year since new, at 18k miles today, and the car will not see more than that per year until I'm dead and buried.

 

[Ratmaster]