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From what I read using E85 in our cars would kill our babies Oldhead
 

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It can be done but you have to redo your car to run on E85. The fuel pump may need to be changed but I understand the E85 is much more corrosive requiring some changes to the fuel delivery systems and to the heads etc. Funny thing is if your car was designed to run on Leaded fuel it will run E85 just fine after retuning.

If you decide to run E85 on your car it really is only a benefit if your running Forced Induction. And unless you install a full Flex Fuel computer system with all required sensors you need to set it up to ONLY run E85. And E85 has much less BTU per Gallon than Gasoline. Figured for my GF's truck the E85 had to be $.50 per gallon cheaper than Gasoline to break even. Apparently E85 is a higher octane fuel which works better in Forced Induction systems.

Please note I have read this from other members in other forums and could be TOTALLY wrong. Only shared as a help to research further.
 

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It can be done but you need to address a few things.
Obviously tuning, but also need larger injectors.

I ran e85 on my Jeep(w/ '90s GM TBI system) for almost a year, nothing corroded/rotted away/plugged up/etc.
In fact looking @ parts afterward showed nothing out of the ordinary.
They say you need a stainless fuel filter, I cut mine open, it was fine internally.
I had the injectors cleaned & flow tested, and they were also fine, didn't even need it according to the guy.

I have read many many things about the negative effects of e85, but what I have found from firsthand experience is that a great deal of it is nonsense.
Mostly rehashed wive's tales, internet myths, and folks that have never used it.

I'll probably switch over again @ some point, as gas here is stupid $, and e85 has come down in price. So with the cost difference, it makes sense again.

The fuel lines on these are mostly nylon/plastic stuff, e85 won't harm them.
The injectors can probably tolerate it as well. The pump is mostly plastic.

Now, e85 WILL absorb moisture/water, if you do run it you must keep the fuel fresh. Absolutely cannot let a vehicle sit for months, then expect nothing bad to happen. They do make additives/treatments specifically for this though. I have seen the white goo of e85 in my lawnmower and other equipment that has sat for months. It is a nightmare if it happens, as the fuel system needs to be dismantled and cleaned.
 

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Been there, done that!

My experience with running my SS on E85 concurs with just about everything babywag said.

Our fuel system handles E85 fine, to include the fuel pump, regulator, and the factory injector O-rings.

Items I used on my stock LT1 to make it run on E85:
-E85 tune, which I obtained from Brian Herter @ PCM4Less
-Red Top SVO injectors
-E85

There should be an old thread on here outlining my results from setting up my car on E85 in 2008, and driving it out to St. Louis and back for ISSCA Nationals. Participated in most of the events out there, car ran strong, and without issue. If you run without cats, you'll appreciate the decrease in fumes.
 

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the OEM injectors are not designed for ethanol fuels .. so these will not last as long as designed. 10% ethanol is the MAX .. so if those climate pols forced use into 15% or and higher ethanol we would have to change injectors and get a tune to avoid engine damage..


I ran a vehicle with E85 ability out in COW country not here where I live.. E85 use did drop MPG down about 20% compared to 87 octane 10% ethanol .. so with the price difference no $$$ savings..E85 less power..


my impala does run better more power with 91 octane..
if I could do it I would use 91 octane NO ethanol fuels..


Florida has this gas...
 

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the OEM injectors are not designed for ethanol fuels .. so these will not last as long as designed. 10% ethanol is the MAX .. so if those climate pols forced use into 15% or and higher ethanol we would have to change injectors and get a tune to avoid engine damage..
Do you have any data to back up the claim that E15+ would kill the OE injectors?

Not that it matters since they'd be too small for the fuel volume requirements, anyway.
 

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Do you have any data to back up the claim that E15+ would kill the OE injectors?

Not that it matters since they'd be too small for the fuel volume requirements, anyway.

GM told me the injectors get damaged from the higher than 10% ethanol.. best to use non ethanol buy we are stuck with the 10% in my area..



on data this was GM tech about what fuel to use and why ..



replacing injectors that can handle high ethanol should work fine with the tune.
 

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GM told me the injectors get damaged from the higher than 10% ethanol.. best to use non ethanol buy we are stuck with the 10% in my area..

on data this was GM tech about what fuel to use and why ..

replacing injectors that can handle high ethanol should work fine with the tune.
GM who? A GM engineer? A dealership technician? A guy name George Miller at the local cars and coffee?

Specifically what about the OE injector design will cause it to be killed by E15+ that won't kill other OE or aftermarket injectors?

These cars are designed to be used with ethanol. It will not kill the fuel system.
 

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year 1996 no ethanol up here LOL... and when ethanol came out up here so the IOWA lobbyists , could get my tax money... I called GM about this ethanol issue.. got tech support and it was very interesting info..


alcohol damages these injectors as built in the 1996 vehicles...but 10% will work for shorter time than non ethanol...5% ethanol he said should be good..


with this post on the ethanol fuel I now remember that when 5% ethanol was here engine reduced power and MPG drop....


Since you appear to be very knowledgeable out these vehicles get your helms 1996 caprice/impala/roadmaster GM B Platform shop manual book 1 pg 6C-4 ..


this will get you in the correct process about these alcohol fuels in this design.
 

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year 1996 no ethanol up here LOL... and when ethanol came out up here so the IOWA lobbyists , could get my tax money... I called GM about this ethanol issue.. got tech support and it was very interesting info..

alcohol damages these injectors as built in the 1996 vehicles...but 10% will work for shorter time than non ethanol...5% ethanol he said should be good..

Since you appear to be very knowledgeable out these vehicles get your helms 1996 caprice/impala/roadmaster GM B Platform shop manual book 1 pg 6C-4 ..

this will get you in the correct process about these alcohol fuels in this design.
Ethanol has been around in fuel for decades prior to 1996. In those days it was referred to as "gasohol". As you've noted, ethanol is predominant in the corn producing states such as Iowa. If it killed the fuel systems in B-Bodies, mine (and many others) would have been dead LONG ago as it's used E10 almost exclusively since new.

This isn't the first time you've spouted nonsense. I'd advise you refrain from doing so further.
 

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Ethanol has been around in fuel for decades prior to 1996. In those days it was referred to as "gasohol". As you've noted, ethanol is predominant in the corn producing states such as Iowa. If it killed the fuel systems in B-Bodies, mine (and many others) would have been dead LONG ago as it's used E10 almost exclusively since new.

This isn't the first time you've spouted nonsense. I'd advise you refrain from doing so further.
I posted the pg and book of the GM shop manual on this.. It is not my stupid ignorant comment on this !!! book says alcohol not good ..............

but if you do change the affected parts and tune it up for alcohol probably work .. I have no experience on high alcohol uses and how to mod engines so they will work with no damage.

NO E85 up here ... for decades ..
 

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If you're going to run more than E10, the computer NEEDS a tune.
The manual is mostly referring to an engine that is running too lean, and running too lean can damage an engine.
The reference to plugging fuel filters is due to most gas creates a waxy buildup after many years. Ethanol in higher concentrations loosens/cleans this and it winds up in filters, and worst case injectors.
Simply changing the fuel filter usually is all you need to do, BEFORE it plugs everything up.

There were issues when Ethanol was first introduced to gas many many years ago(think late 1970's and early 1980's. Most vehicles back then were NOT fuel injected, and did NOT have the modern ethanol capable components.
There were reported instances of damage to rubber & plastic, they figured it out, and substituted different materials in fuel systems and changed additives in E10 to prevent this. Rubber is pretty much non-existent in 90's vehicles or pretty much any EFI vehicle.

Ethanol by itself isn't really corrosive, it will absorb water, so you need to NOT let your vehicle sit unused, and MUST keep fresh fuel in it.
If you do not, the absorbed water promotes a perfect environment for bacteria that thrive in an ethanol/water environment. These bacteria excrete acetic acid and are what causes corrosion.

I'd venture a guess that E10 dominates pretty much ALL fuel available. If Ethanol was an issue for the fuel systems in these, they'd all be dead long ago. Unless you make the special trip to a station that sells real gas.
Out here in CA they are few and far between, and the cost per gal. is beyond insane. I know guys that couldn't drive their car if E85 wasn't available, because they'd have to run Sunoco 100 octane @ $9/gal.

There is a LOT of misinformation and the same old BS that continually gets posted to perpetuate the myths on the internet.
In most modernish EFI vehicles Ethanol isn't going to "kill them" *IF* proper accommodations are made.
I'd venture a guess many guys have filled their tank and the Ethanol was higher than 10%. It does vary and sometimes a lot. Ever fill up in winter and the car runs a little off? Probably got a tankful w/ a little too much Ethanol.

Honestly any vehicle like ours should get a tune IMHO. E10 wasn't the norm when they were built, and they run better with a tune. Once it's tuned properly E15 would be a non issue. The computer can compensate only so much, and E10 is pushing those limits already.

But these are simply my opinions.
 

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In my limited experience in using E85 in my procharged Challenger, E85 wasn't near as corrosive as it is made out to be. I used a cheap eBay fuel cell and sending unit, Summit E85 rated synthetic braided nylon hose and Aeromotive stainless filters. I heard guys saying the E85 will kill cheap sending floats, rust steel sending unit parts, eat away cheap non-PTFE hose. I had none of these problems. I think some people who did may have been leaving E85 in their tank for extended periods of time and letting it absorb moisture (which E85 does a lot of). I still would remove all rubber from the system and probably wouldn't use a paper filter element but I think everything else would be fine. I also never saw any sign of tarnish or gumming up of anything in the system, and it's not like the car was driven every day (or week). I always used Lucas E85 stabilizer when the car was sitting for more than a week. I did notice it would always be burning off a lot of moisture, as evident in the white steam coming from my crank case breather/catch can.

I would make sure you have enough pump for the corn (you'll need about 30% more fuel) and you'll need a good tuner. You won't have the ability to run this as a "flex fuel" setup that will self adjust to E85 but if you want to have two tunes, one for E85 and one for pump gas, that should work fine.

Pros to E85-
Cheap
More resistant to detonation
Cools combustion temps

Cons-
less efficient, uses more fuel (meaning lower MPG and higher fuel demand)
doesn't store well long term, absorbs moisture
lots of variation of ethanol content at the pump, can make tuning a forced induction car without a flex fuel sensor a major pain (ask me how I know)
Can be a little harder to tune, cold starts can be troublesome.

I wouldn't say it's ONLY beneficial on forced induction. LT1 is a fairly high compression engine and I would imagine you may see some small gains on E85 vs pump gas with being able to run a more aggressive timing curve.

On my flex fuel 2016 Silverado, I don't actually see a huge decrease in gas mileage on E85. It's there if you're getting on it a lot, but in normal cruising it is only a couple mpg or the same. It does feel more responsive and a little faster on E85. Even though the gas mileage may be slightly less, the cost savings still pays off with how much cheaper E85 usually is over regular pump gas. If it were a performance car and I had to use 93 octane, the savings would be even more.

The Silverado has a pretty advanced PCM though and utilizes a flex fuel sensor. When I ran E85 through my procharged challenger using a FITECH 1200 fuel injection system, I struggled through dozens of data logs trying to get the tune right and I continued having issues I attributed to variations in fuel quality from fill up to fill up. I also saw a significant decrease in gas mileage to the point where the car wasn't even really drivable on long trips using the 15 gallon fuel cell (and having to keep at least 5-6 gallons in the cell to keep my Magnafuel 750 pump cool). I loved what it did for me at WOT under boost, but it just wasn't worth the drivability issues.

With multi port fuel injection though and a 20+ gallon fuel tank E85 probably would work pretty nicely on a b body.
 

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I posted the pg and book of the GM shop manual on this.. It is not my stupid ignorant comment on this !!! book says alcohol not good ....
Get your phone and take a photo of that page for those of us without a '96 FSM.

I would place money on such a clause referring to alcohol fuels such as those that are used straight (no gasoline mix) in auto racing, and not those which have been available to the public at the corner gas station for 40 years (or 20 years at time of writing).

There is zero chance that GM would have built a car in 1996 that was incompatible with ethanol. The engineers aren't that stupid, and the lawyers aren't that fond of class-action lawsuits.
 

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Get your phone and take a photo of that page for those of us without a '96 FSM.

I would place money on such a clause referring to alcohol fuels such as those that are used straight (no gasoline mix) in auto racing, and not those which have been available to the public at the corner gas station for 40 years (or 20 years at time of writing).

There is zero chance that GM would have built a car in 1996 that was incompatible with ethanol. The engineers aren't that stupid, and the lawyers aren't that fond of class-action lawsuits.

the GM manual info also has a test procedure to indicate if the fuel you purchased has alcohol in it to determine why the engine runs like sh*t..it stated if its more than 10% that is why it is running poorly.. 5% is OK.. 10% or high not good..


some day I will post a PDF of the manual but most likely the forum boss will delete it..copy right protection LOL....
 

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10% is generally the limit of stock tune pcm for fuel trim capabilities.

If someone wants to run anything higher in content than E10, a tune is needed.
E15 alone would NOT kill parts.
Unless tuned for it, yes could run like **** or may damage engine from running too lean.
 

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