[NGrownToNale]

"MoPar or, NoCar" guy

You had posted this 'how-to' (BC) Before Crash, and I tried to respond, but something had me blocked, then 'poof' everything was gone.

Glad you re-poseted.

Since I was the one who thought this rear bar swap on the wagons and posted a pictorial 'how-to' a couple of years or so ago. I wanted to ask; How in the hell did you get a NEW bar from the F0rd dealer for a "Ben Franklin"?!!

When I 'discoverd' the identicial rear frame/suspension/exhaust set up between the Corwn Vic and the Caprice Sedan/Wagon, I made a trip to the F0rd 'stealer' to price out a CV rear bar 'kit'
They gave me a rough figure of $350 (?) something, jsut for the BAR ALONE! Four letter word, them!

In the U-pullit yard, where there were 'boo-coo' CV's. several were on their sides. I discovered the (mid to early '90's) 'civilian' CV/Merc did NOT have rear sway bars. ONLY the COP (whatever F0rd's code is for the police pkg) CV's had the rear bar.

You used clamps and bolted your housing mounts on. I cut the CV rearend housing mounts off, and re-welded them to the Wagon rear end housing. Same differnce, same IMPROVED handling, (Your design is 100% bolt in! I wanted to match the OEM CV mounting 100%.) without the cost of special LCA's. and a well known aftermarket brand name front/rear bar kit.

Still like to know, how you got a new bar from the F0rd 'stealer' for a $100?

BTW, since your 'signature' is MoPar, what 'mopes' do you have? Guy on here has the unofficial LOWEST street driven '55 Savoy 2-door in the US! Several winters ago up there, someone threw a snowball at him, and when he drove over it, he got hung up,,,,,,,,

You can use the CV exhaust (tail pipes) to eliminate the Caprice resonators. To those that do NOT want to put a F0rd exhaust on a Caprice, the brick shaped Caddys, have the same tail pipes W/O reasonators as the 'jelly bean' Caprices. Also, the COP CV (?) has a power steering cooler. You can look in the; '95 No Wood Wagon in the for sale section to see how I mounted the cooler.

How was your handling differnce, after you did the CV rear bar swap?

 

[NGrownToNale]

WOW! Look at ALL this information!

I wish 'this' information was available when I did my swap! It would have made the 'guessing, KY windage, two people on a tape measure, trail and error,' SO much easier!

"dandman", what 'drilling' are you refering to? I did NO drilling. Once I welded the CV center bar mounts to the Wagon rear end housing, exactly the way they were welded on the CV. EVERYTHING was bolt in!

 

[NGrownToNale]

OK, I'll give you all what I 'discovered,' on the frame between the Wagon and CV.

This is mid to early '90's CV. Later years CV may be differnt. (?) I do NOT know about what Lincolns had. Simply because, at this U-pullit yard, there was very few '90's Lincolns and none were on their sides. There had seemed to be a large fleet accuastion of ex Cop cars. Caprices AND CV's, and several of each were on their sides.

Compairing the CV Cop car rear frame design to the Caprice wagon rear frame, they are practiaclly identical, in measurments and design.
The ONLY differnc eI spotted, was the little frame gusset plate on a CV had a HOLE where the wagon had a SLOT. The wagon's SLOT was the same width as the CV's HOLE.
That HOLE on the CV is where the sway bar link bolt bushing bolted to.
I simply took a piece of metal and welded into the wagon's slot, to have a hole.

I did the CV rear bar swap, because several years ago, on this site there were posts of how someone had 'forced' a SS/9C-1 sedan rear bar 'over' to fit the wagon LCA's, and 'discovered' damage was beeing done to the wagon LCA's.
Almost every other post (BC) before crash, was about Wagon LCA's not being able to take the stress of adding a OM SS/9C-1, or aftermarket, rear bar.
Other than GM, every other vehicle make's, rear sway bar design, has the center of the bar mounted to the rear end housing, then the link bolts are mounted to the frame.
Then the 'cure' was 'biefer' LCA's with pre drilled holes for aftermarket rear bar mounting. Some requiring a front bar along with the rear bar.
The result was SUPERIOR, IMPROVED handling over OM! But,,,,,, at a co$t!

After reading these posts and seeing the pictures,,,,,,, there HAD to be a 'poor man's' cure, there just HAD to be another alternitive.

Actually I sumbled onto the CV rear bar quite by accident. (Isn't that how things get 'discovered' "by accident"?)
It started. Trying to get dual exhaust on a '90 VINed and titled Caprice, but a '91 up body style. (?)
NO muffler shop could make that sharp bend over the rear axle. The ONLY soloution was pay dearly for SS Impala dual tailpipes, throw a way the resonators. It would fit, and work, but NOT cost productive.
I 'discovered' that the 'brick' shaped Caddys, '77 up, had that same tight bend over the rear axle as the SS and caprice sedans. So a left and right, late '80's Caddy tailpipes had the same bends as the SS/Caprice, only W/O the reasonator!
After (on a whim) crossing the Caddy tailpipe #'s to see what else popped up. Here the same tailpipe on the Caddys, was used on the '80s and well as the '90s (new body style) CV's! I think, the CV tailpipes were a little cheaper than the Caddy pipes, even though they were IDENTICAL!

While in this U-pullit yard with soime buddys, I discovered a CV cop car has a PS cooler. The larger. Caprice wagons didn't have coolers. It was easier to take that cooler off a CV that was on it's side, than one laying on the ground. THAT was when I noticed the similaritys of the rear frames. The some measuring,,,,,,. At this yard, over in the Chevy section there was a wagon in it's side, to compaire.
Unbolting the CV bar and holding it up to that turned over wagon, it fit perfectly!
I was quite proud of my self. Here I discoverd an alternative to the costiler aftermarket wagon rear bar problem!

I posted my discovery, pictorial 'how-to' on this site, and was met with very mixed, (cold) reviews. (Prarphrased) Ford parts on a Chevy, etc. Ford's design won't work on the heavier wagons, etc, and several more, mostly negative comments.
I KNEW it worked, and was sastified, with finding an alternitive to the wagon rear bar problem.

I guess, NOW several years later, someone remembered the CV rear bar swap, several have preformed the swap, and are giving testomonials to the low cost, installition ease, and improved handling!

 

[NGrownToNale]

WOW! ALL this 'positive' enthusiasm, several years, after the orginal post!

I can't find my set of orginal pictures, to show how I made that 'slot' into a 'hole' like on the CV's frame gusset. The ONLY way to change out that gusset, (remove the Caprice, weld in the CV) is if the body is off the frame. BOTH gussets are IDENTICAL except for the 'slot/hole'

Anyway. I inserted a same thickness of metal, the same width at the 'slot', only the one end of the inserted piece of filler metal was rounded, so when it was welded into place there was a complete round hole, for the link bolt bushing to 'set' into.

I guess, being an 'old' '1960's-'70's Street Rodder, (before CNC/billet aliminum/complete parts catalogs) one just naturally took parts from other cars, either, made 'em (modified) fit or bolted the parts on. One back then, learned to have an 'eye' at how to tell if parts from one make of vehicle woul fit another make of vehicle decades older.

Anyway.

Sure wish someone would buy my wagon. CVic bar is already there! LOL '95 No Wood Wagon' in the for sale section. Boo-Coo pictures.

Now, it would be interisting to do a side by side comparison on a Auto-X course between two identical wagons, one with the pricer $$$ LCA's/front/rear swaybar kits, and one with a junk yard Crown Vic set up, to see if the more $$$ expencive set up is any better?

 

[NGrownToNale]

"Striper" You are absoulty right! The law of 'threes!'

Modify ONE thing. THREE more related to that ONE will have to be modified in some way or another!

If I may, let me take your surmation to the next level.

There is a thick booklet put out by Addico, called; "Handling What It Is And How To Get It"

There is an article in there about coil sprung, link bar/controll arm suspension, sway bar mounted to the LCA's vs to the frame. THAT will settle ANY argument as to which design is better! But,,,,,, as "Striper'' said, how far are you going to be willing to go,,,,, before,,,,,?

OK, the easiest/cheapest up grade to ANY suspension is a anti-roll/sway bar, PERIOD!
Now take "Stiper's way of thinking.
A common vehicle,,,, lets take a stock suspensioned sedan from the '60's It can only go so fast into a certain radius turn, before,,,,,,,,?
Now, add a front anti sway bar. That same car can take that same turn now at a faster speed.
Now, add radial tires. That car can safely take that turn faster.
Now lt's add urathane bushings. Faster yet.
(OEM rubber busings have a 2" give built into them. meaning OEM rubber busings will let the car lean/roll/give 2" before they start to work.)

Polyurtane bushings, faster yet,,,,,, before?
Ok, here is where the "before,,,,,?" comes in.
That vehicle is now negoiting that turn as a speed greater than is was orginally designed to.
Notice what I said. The car is now able (succesfully) to go that fast(er) certain speed through that same turn, but at a speed faster than the car was orginally design for.
What is happening, ALL of the improvemnts (except for the tire change over) had been to the front of the vehicle.
The inside REAR is lifting high,,,, sometimes the inside REAR tire is off the ground, transfering ALL that extra weight on the outside front. Something now has to ,,,,,'before',,,,? Wheel breaks, tire roll off the rim, A-arms crack, spindle breaks,,,,????

So the NEXT step, to this '60's sedan that has had all these FRONT suspension up grades,,,, is, to the rear. Urathane, or polyurthane bushings in the rear, and above all, a REAR anit roll/sway bar to bring the inside rear back down, to transfer the weight off the outside front.
Now you can go FASTER yet through that same turn!

Now what's next? Indinpendent rear suspension,,,, That car can now take that same turn safely at twice the speed it could orginally. Whoo-Haw!

Now, the front suspension is over loaded,,,,,,,(again) lets' see, Tublar A'arms and needle bearing in place of the busings. MORE speed in that same turn.

OK now lits go with tublar REAR A-arms,,,,, faster yet th,,,,,,,,,,,,. Wait a minute!

You now have a sedan that can corner just as good as a Indy or open wheeled race car,,,,, and that is it. Other than you now have 10 trimes what the vehicle is worth! It can't be driven safely on the street, no supension give for the pot holes, RR track and a million other road hazards, or 'normal' hazards in the road, that a bone OEM vehicle doesn't even notice!

See what "Striper" is saying? How far are you willing to go? The rule of threes!

Those frame gussets, slot in the caprice, hole in the CV, hard street driven, some auto X'ing are NOT going to break/crack!
I have see a small piece of 3/16" angle iron welded to the side of the frame for the link bolts to fasten to,,,,,, never broke or cracked. Some dirt track roundy rounds have less of a mount that what is in these CV's and wagons!
The LCA's will/have broke before that gusset!

There is a guy down here that bought a Y2-K or '01 Extended cab Dodge Cummins dually.

He likes to tinker. He tinkered that truck to a ungodly 1,200 hp and 900+ ft # of tourque!
The ONLY thing that is orginal on that truck is the body! It 'looks' just like ti did brand new!
60 mph in OD , gently give it some fuel, the 4 rear tires will spin.
10 second 1/4 mile times. This is with a almost a 9,000 pound truck!
This truck is so useless, it can't be driven very far on the street. The exhaust gas temps get too high! But, it can 'smoke' any Corvette!
Smoke! I guarantee you there are NO bugs of ANY kind around his place!

Matt, the spring perch idea you mentioned, is almost how the CV has the bar mounted to it's rear end housing! I used the CV swaybar to axle housing mounts, and welded them to the wagon housing in the same angle location they were on the CV!

It is better to have a piece of bungy cord back there to help keep the rear end of these wagons from lifting up and putting too much ,,,,,, before,,,? on the outside front, than nothing at all!

Those that want to go the ho$ki$ (or however you spell it) EVERYTHING, or to those that use the CV bar and muffler clamps, it's what your 'heart' tells you, or what you 'beleive in'

I 'beleive' I found a better/cheaper 'mousetrap' when I did this swap several years ago. To me, I thought all of these LCA's cracking/breaking was dangerous, but, some took it as every day normal useage, wear and tear.

 

[NGrownToNale]

Before I 'discovered' the Crown Vic to wagon rear swaybar swap.

The full sized Bronco/F-150 ('80-'96) rear sway bar assembly will actually bolt right in some applications, and,,,,, is a 'almost' direct bolt in, on other applications! The length of the mounting link bolts will have to be shortened.

Back in the late '80's I built a '48 DeSoto Rod, with a '55 DeS Hemi. A pack of Camels could barely fit inder the front bumper. Did that Bronco bar swap. (Shortened up the link bolts ay 6" or so) It was a night, day, differnce in handling!

What baffles me is, how are you guys able to go to the Ford DEALER and buy a brand new Merc/CV bar, for under a hundred?! They want 2-3 hundred for just the bar, around here!

Also, I noticed most of you guys are using a 3" or whatever, muffler clamps, as the rear end housing to bar mounts. (If it works, GOOD!)
But, I torched the bar to rear end housing mounts off the CV, and welded them on the Wagon housing in the same location as the CV.
These mounts I torched off the CV, looked like the leaf spring pads that the leaf spring center bolt goes into. Of course the CV pad didn't have that center aligment hole, it had a slot and a threaded hole for the mounting bolt to thread into. (there are pictures I took, somewhere in the archives. I'm afraid to go in there and look for them. I heard that a member on here, went in the archives to look for something and hasn't been heard from since! Weird organ music payin' in the background)

I also noticed you guys are using Y2-K and above, bars. There was a rear end change of some sort in the CV's in the late '90's (not sure, or care, what was chaged) But, I am courious now as to how the Y2-K and up rear bars are mounted to the CV/Merc rear end housing? Mine was off a '93 CV cop car.

I notice you guys are using that 'slot' in the frame gusset. I welded a piece of filler metal in that slot to make a round hole for the busings to fit, just like the CV. That gusset is just as strong as the frame, and will support the swaybar link bolts/bushings. Providing that gusset is badly rusted. Just like on the CV's/Merc's, if it's badly rusted, the bushing will pull through, that's all.

If the wagon frsme is rusted too bad, then either, the rear bar will have to be fastened to the LCA's or weld a better gusset plate,,,,,,.

Glad you guys are enjoying the 'imporved' handling, at a frugal $$ layout, without LCA failures.