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As usual Bill does a great job (I think anyhow) of explaining the issues here and why.

I'll do my best to get you any info on pricing change- if any for the calipers.

As for changes and special orders etc to do things not intended with this caliper I can all but assure you that unless you had an order for a few hundred parts that there is no way any of that is going to happen. Custom orders and requests at the qty level of even 20pcs tends to fall on deaf ears.

The new 'black' finish is related to the same process being used now on the FSL and other calipers. If I can find you a picture of this that is clear I will try to post it for everyone.

***Here you go: the new internal passage FSL-
 

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The Plat-E color is not yet in the system for this caliper but will be shortly. (don't have a time line)

When it is however the price will be a tad lower and both black or red color will be considered an up-charge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
update 6/22

EDIT of last update

Barry, the GP is open-ended at this point--the "holdup" has been getting a commitment for 5 kits to actually go forward with the GP....we're either there, or looking for one more at this point, I think. I'll review all of the contacts and re-confirm where the GP stands. The addition of the optional coating color may bring some people back into the "interested" category, although, as Todd mentions, it's not clear what effect, if any, the optional finish may have on price, or if Wilwood has adjusted pricing since the introduction of this GP. Stay tuned....

See 1. below


The ONLY possibility that I could do anything to "fix" this would be to have special hats made that are thicker at the wheel mating surface--effectively making the spacer part of the hat itself. It would increase track width slightly, which in most cases--especially with the 15" wheel as the consideration--would be a non-problem. That means parts proliferation, and/or a special run of hats for the fairly-small likelihood of the 15" steelie & HD12/D52 combination. If I had anticipated the possibility, it would have been easy to make the HD12 hat thicker from day one. No crystal ball here.....but I do have more hats on order now, and I'll check into the possibility of making the flange thicker on some of them, if that might help you out.

See 2. below


As the pads wear, the clearance between the wheel and caliper body will increase, so this is an issue that is based on everything being at "full dimension"--ie., with all-new parts. There is no way I can fix wheel designs, and the HD12 rotor will not be re-engineered at this point just to accomodate the Wilwood calipers. Anything larger than the OE steel 15" wheel is not an issue--period. I have NOT confirmed whether OE 15" aluminum wheels have any clearance issues, but the reality is that this rotor/caliper combination is much more likely to be used on vehicles with the OE Impala SS wheels or other larger wheels the majority of the time.

The ONE possibility with OE B-body steel wheels, as I stated above, is a small spacer, or thicker hat. Short of that, I suppose someone could take a hand grinder and do some "massage" of the wheel center flanges (that mate to the outer rim ring) to reduce the profile of the flanges, but that should be done VERY carefully. I would NOT recommend any material removal on the Wilwood calipers.

Here is the D52 drawing posted on the Wilwood website. I do not know if the "thin" rotor version is a different body width (drawing shows 2.53") or whether the difference is a matter of using taller pistons in the same caliper body for use on narrower rotors. I will attempt to find out, FWIW, but in the end it isn't a significant issue.

See 3. below
1. At this point I have not contacted indivduals directly, but I think we can count enough hands to say "Gentlemen, place your orders".

PLEASE PM or e-mail me directly to indicate your intent to be in the Group Purchase and for further details on what happens next.

2. For those who want to be able to run a 15" wheel, it will be possible to have "thick" hats made as part of the current stock order in process now--my intention is to have 10 hats made to the thicker specs, and they will also be dual-pattern (5 x 5 & 5 x 4.75). I will also acknowledge that, at this point, I have NOT validated fit of the OE aluminum 15 x 7 wheels with D52 & HD12--I will do that soon and update the application information.

3. No answer yet from Wilwood regarding the caliper body width difference, if any, between thin & thick rotor versions. Any change in pricing based on Wilwood's addition of a new coating process and addition of black as an available powdercoat choice will be passed along as soon as possible. I do not expect a significant change in pricing from what it is now based solely on the finish options.
 

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Overall caliper body width will not be the same. Only the inner and outer overhangs will be. The variable is the center bridge at the point where the two halves meet. Like all BSL and FSL calipers the parts are produced for the widest design and milled down to the slimmest size for those applications using thinner rotors. For wheel clearance issues the only info necessary and the consistent info is found here:

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl220.pdf

The outer body being 1.62". This 1.62 will be consistent as it references the outer friction surface. For those considering 15" wheel fit or spoke clearance this will be your best way to compare to the oe caliper for fit.

There no question about this as the "mount offset" spec is also different based upon the rotor width which references rotor center line.
 

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Is there any activity for this group buy yet?

Barry
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
update 8-1-2010

Barry & all,

At this point, I'm only able to say that there has not been the response that seemed to match the interest level expressed that brought this to the point of announcing the GP was open for business--back in June.

So far, you are the only person ready to commit....and that doesn't make the GP viable. Unless a minimum of 5 step up, the GP remains in limbo.

I'd like to do more to make this move forward, but I'm really just the organizer....Todd (TCE) would have to make a decision about any change in the terms of the GP.

One thing I should update regarding use of the Wilwood D52 calipers with HD12 front rotors and OE 15" wheels: I've got more HD12 rotor hats on order, and some of them will be thicker to provide adequate clearance with OE steel wheels.

Wish I had better news, but maybe people seeing this will respond and we can still make the GP happen.
 

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Barry & all,

At this point, I'm only able to say that there has not been the response that seemed to match the interest level expressed that brought this to the point of announcing the GP was open for business--back in June.

So far, you are the only person ready to commit....and that doesn't make the GP viable. Unless a minimum of 5 step up, the GP remains in limbo.

I'd like to do more to make this move forward, but I'm really just the organizer....Todd (TCE) would have to make a decision about any change in the terms of the GP.

One thing I should update regarding use of the Wilwood D52 calipers with HD12 front rotors and OE 15" wheels: I've got more HD12 rotor hats on order, and some of them will be thicker to provide adequate clearance with OE steel wheels.

Wish I had better news, but maybe people seeing this will respond and we can still make the GP happen.

Thanks for the update!
I will keep watching.

Barry
 

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I'm in. Email sent to Bill
 

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Still Interested

Hey Bill. I'm still interested.. Let's get to 5.. I'm not sure about rotors if I can use my fairly new stockers...

Thanks..
 

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Maybe interested. Kinda want to get rid of the ugly looking calipers upfront. Contemplating if this will better the look of my ride or hold off for bigger brakes. These look good though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
In case you had not seen this picture - showing the D52 caliper on HD12 rotor. (see thumbnail)

Understand that there are 2 versions of the caliper--one to fit standard GM B-body rotor (26mm thick) and one that will fit the HD12 rotor (32.5mm thick).

To clarify, the color choices are black or red powdercoat--the E-Platinum coating is not being offered on D52 calipers at this time.
 

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Rotor Finish

Bill,

Is the rotor finish in the picture your cross finishing that was the subject of discussion and recommendation around the time I did your C5 rear upgrade two years ago? If so, I definitely want that finsh.

Thanks,
Neil
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 · (Edited)
Working on direct response to your e-mail.

The finish you see in the thumbnail is applied once the HD12 rotor is assembled, using a Flexhone. It's something I do on every HD12 kit built. That finish eventually goes away as the pads & rotors get fully broken in.

Shops should be familiar with this tool and process, but just in case, I also have the Flexhone for rotors available separately--whenever pads are replaced, whether rotors are refinished or replaced (which may or may not have a similar finish), if there is no cross-hatch finish on the rotor surface, this tool will allow one to be applied--ideally on a brake lathe, as the link above discusses. The cross-hatch finish aids in pad bedding & rotor seasoning, leading to greater braking efficiency and longer life for both pads & rotors.

If pads are replaced (even if they are the SAME pads as those being removed)--without doing anything to the rotors, assuming they are otherwise smooth and within spec--the best way to ensure the new pads will properly seat & bed is to run a Flexhone across the surfaces to provide a fresh surface, free of old pad "film transfer"--not doing so can create a glazing condition where the old & new pad materials tend to "wad up", creating unpleasant effects, such as rotor thickness variation, perceived as warpage, thus causing pedal pulsations.
 

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So if I understand correctly, the Flexhone cross-hatch is standard on the HD12 Kit, plus there is a choice of an optional X Slot or DPA 6x6 Wiper Slot available for the HD12 Kit, correct?

Could you post pictures of the two slot options?
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 · (Edited)
The GP is FINALLY moving ahead--if you want in, the current target/cutoff for commitment on the caliper order is September 19th, two weeks from today. Calipers would be ordered in the following week, and delivery should be by Oct 10--or earlier.

Referring back to this post in the thread - updated here

Pricing:
- with pads $379
- no pads $349

Price includes shipping in 50 states - USPS Priority flat rate

Payment via PayPal - add 4%

Kit consists of:
- 2 calipers
- specific hoses & banjo bolts (non-metric)
- mounting hardware (caliper bolts, sleeves, and bushings

Pads will be Wilwood BP-10 if you buy pads with the kit, unless otherwise specified/arranged.

Choices:
Color - red or black powdercoat
Fitment - must specify application - narrow for standard (26mm) or wide for HD12 (32.5mm) rotors

NOTE: if replacing 9C1 calipers and intent is to continue to use a D614 thick (police-spec) pad, MUST use the wide caliper

Don't wait to contact me for further details! Prefer contact by e-mail--PM box gets full too easy!!! [email protected]


So if I understand correctly, the Flexhone cross-hatch is standard on the HD12 Kit, plus there is a choice of an optional X Slot or DPA 6x6 Wiper Slot available for the HD12 Kit, correct?

Could you post pictures of the two slot options?
Neil, all rotors receive the Flexhone treatment during assembly.

Will post pictures soon--once I figure it out....again!
 

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What is the composition of the Wilwood BP-10 pads? I couldn't find them on Wilwood's site.

Thanks,
Neil
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 · (Edited)
Here's the D52 pad chart

More details

For any further details, I suggest you give Todd at TCE a call.


General info for everyone:

Though I've stated this many times, D52 and D614 pads are interchangeable in any caliper that accepts D52 pads.

The one thing that is NOT possible is to use D614 police-spec (thick) pads in the narrow-body Wilwood D52 caliper.

For the record, there is no Wilwood D52 "thick" pad that would equate to the D614 police-spec pad. A company such as Carbotech could probably make a performance thick D52 pad, in all likelihood, if you wanted to use the standard thickness rotor.
 

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Here's the D52 pad chart

More details

For any further details, I suggest you give Todd at TCE a call.


General info for everyone:

Though I've stated this many times, D52 and D614 pads are interchangeable in any caliper that accepts D52 pads.

The one thing that is NOT possible is to use D614 police-spec (thick) pads in the narrow-body Wilwood D52 caliper.

For the record, there is no Wilwood D52 "thick" pad that would equate to the D614 police-spec pad. A company such as Carbotech could probably make a performance thick D52 pad, in all likelihood, if you wanted to use the standard thickness rotor.

Bill I am still in and just have to know how to order under the group buy. It is time to get the stock caliper setup after 198K miles. lol I just need the standard setup to replace the stock ImpalaSS equipment in Black.

Barry
 
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