1991 305 TBI Caprice vs 1992 Crown Vic - Chevy Impala SS Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2003, 06:31 PM
jerseyfred
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I heard the 92 Vic could had a stock 190 hp SOHC V8 engine with available traction control and dual exhausts boosting hp to 210

The stock 91 Caprice had a 170 hp 305 TBI no available traction control or dual exhaust

2 questions:
1) Is the above true?
2) Did Caprice's outperform Vics only starting in '94 with the L99 and LT1s. Was the 92 Vic better performing than the 91-93 Caprice?

I'm interestd to know.

Fred
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2003, 08:59 PM
'94XTHP
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My seat of the pants dyno says that my L05 TBI 350-powered Caprices would beat my 1995 P71 Crown Vics (police-package, for the Ford-impaired [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Yes, I've owned more than one of each. Of course, the L05 350 Caprices had factory 3.42 gears, which helps. The TBI Caprices and the SOHC Clown Bricks felt about equally anemic.

PS Traction control is NOT an issue, as both cars in question control traction with their inherent lack of torque. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2003, 09:14 PM
jerseyfred
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My seat of the pants dyno says that my L05 TBI 350-powered Caprices would beat my 1995 P71 Crown Vics (police-package, for the Ford-impaired ).

What about the L05 305 TBIs vs the 92 Vics? Again that's 170 hp in the Chevy vs the 190 in the Vics [img]smile.gif[/img]

Fred
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2003, 09:43 PM
thelazydestroyer
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hate to say it, but the L03 equipped caprice would probably get owned by a vic. a L05 vs P71 would be more of a match. considering the tbi cars only got single exhaust they are at a handicap.

anyone know whats the weight of the early 90's crown vics?
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2003, 11:50 PM
94LT1
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ive driven a LO3 Caprice and some P71's

i would say the P71's would pull ahead, they are lighter i think and have some more ponies

LO5 350 should take them out though
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-09-2003, 08:58 AM
9C1LT195
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Lazy Destroyer:
anyone know whats the weight of the early 90's crown vics?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 3750 lbs. 98-02 are about 200 lbs heavier. 03+ are over 4100 lbs.
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-09-2003, 11:16 AM
kdrolt
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I answered a question like this once, in re the LO5 Caprice 9C1 vs the 1992+ CV PI.
Briefly, the 205 hp versions are slightly better than the 92-94 CV models, and after that it's iffy. When Ford had no competition in the police market, they seemed to have decreased the performance in the engine calibrations so the performance of the 98-99 models seemed significantly less than 1996. Then Ford perked up the CV engine up to the 235 hp level it's at now. So the answer is that the 92-93 LO5 9C1 is arguably a better performer than two groups of CV PIs (92-94, 98-99) based on MSP (Michigan State Police) testing, and it's probably a step behind the 95-96, 2000+ models.

Do a search for MSP testing on the Caprice section and you should find the links to the NLECTC web site. They have the MSP tests online there.

That said, none of the CV PI models are/were ever better than the 94-96 LT1 9C1. They still aren't.

Now the orig question here concerned the LO3 Caprice (305 cubic inches) vs the 1992 CV (281 cubic inches). The answer is that the CV wins just about everywhere.

The sohc CVs, which debuted for the 1992 model year, started with 210 fwhp and approx 280 ftlbs and got better, gradually, powerwise up to the 235 fwhp level they're at now. The LO3 engine was always a very mild mannered engine tuned for torquey and fuel-efficient mid-sized and large- passenger cars and was always shackled with only 170 hp and 255 ftlb, mostly from a terribly restrictive exhaust. So the Caprice had less power and torque output despite the engine being slightly larger (305 vs 281 cid), and the Caprice was approx 200 lbs heavier. So it's not much of a contest. The CVB wins, and the MSP data prove that too.

With that said, if you open up the exhaust on the LO3, you will be rewarded with a 10-20 hp boost, and probably a good 15-20 ftlbs gain. If you add the Caddy cold air, you're looking at 10-15 hp gain. Lose the airpump and switch to elec fans, you're adding 5-15 hp depending on how bad the orig items were. The quarter mod to the TBI fuel pressure regulator finishes things up, by adding the extra fuel needed to deal with the enhanced breathing. That's an avg of 37 hp gain, over the 170 hp stock value. So the engine is now at around 207 fwhp and close to 300 ftlbs. After those simple mods, the 305 TBI Caprice is probably even with the 92 CV. And OBTW, I'd still rather have a LO3 Caprice than a sohc CV. The Caprice is easily modded (as above), the body/suspension/following is far greater due to the long run 91-96 body models, and 77-96 platform, and the presence of the 94-96 SS. There is no equivalently large following for the CV, and the failed Marauder didn't help to change that.

I won't get into cam swaps, 1.6 ratio rocker swaps, and others because at that point, it makes more sense to drop a 350 into the Caprice. But for the 305 owner, you can do a lot of cheap stuff (intake, exhaust, airpump, fans, fuel pressure) to wake up the 305.

Many 3rd generation LO3 Fcar owners have done these mods (none require going into the engine) and have run in the low 15s, so a LO3 Caprice would then run near 16 flat in good weather. That's not really a surprise because the modded LO3 described above pretty much matches the stock output of the 9C1 LO5 (205 fwhp, 300 fw ftlbs). HTH, FWIW.
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2003, 08:26 PM
Rollin91
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What is the quater mod.And what Caddy cold air.My Lo3 needs help. [img]5.gif[/img]
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2003, 09:33 PM
Speed Queen
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I wondered this myself. So I put my two cars to the test. Mind you both are in tune, solid performers. But honestly guys mt Vic walked my Roadmaster. Even until 1-2 shift then the Vic pulled away.
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2003, 10:58 PM
thelazydestroyer
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caddy intake is a cold air intake for the L03/L05 engines using the throttle body "hat" off of a tbi caddy. puts the filter behind the driver's headlight where it can get cold air. my writeup can be seen here.

quarter mod is sticking a quarter into the FPR (this ups psi about a pound, and keeps engine from running too lean at high rpms). a writeup can be seen here. this one should wait until at least intake/exhaust gets done. hope this helps!
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