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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2001, 06:15 PM
BBODYLTZN
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question for the 305 guys what mods have you guys done to you 305's what 1/4 mile are you's runnin im trying to figure out what i'm doing wrong i know the 305 has more potential than 16.5-17.5 at the 1/4 mile any tips thanks

------------------
92 CAPRICE LTZ stock 305,3.23gears,pete jackson gear drive,K&Nfilter,duel exuast,ssgrille,clear fronts and rear lights,msd 8.5 wires x4plugs
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT
DONT DRINK AND DRIVE YOU WILL SPILL YOUR BEER
http://hometown.aol.com/bbodyltzn/
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2001, 09:28 PM
AdioSS
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try a better track
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2001, 10:25 PM
AdioSS
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You might also try a new torque converter and since you still have the stock clutch fan (looked at your webpage). Pull the belt for it and you should pick up a few tenths. Maybe even disconnect the front swaybar (or remove it totally).

If you really want to go big, get a new cam! A stock LT1 or LT4 cam is a great cam for the 305.

Also, I see you have yet to join the GM_TBI listserv. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GM_TBI
Lots of help for you there!

------------------
Che§ton Phillips - AIM:Impalaitis
'96 BBB Impala §§ "ADIOSS" & '91 white Caprice 'n0n 9c1' w/L03
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-06-2001, 05:28 PM
patgizz
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does the stock clutch fan really rob that much?
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-06-2001, 07:52 PM
96capriceMGR
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On of the car magazines(Car Craft May 2000) I read did a dyno test on a 400hp+ smallblock. The worst mechanical fan (fixed) robbed 45HP over an electric. I am not saying the stock cluch fan is that bad but there is a reason Detroit switched to electric. Didn't the 96's with the towing option and mech. fan get a 250hp rating instead of 260hp.

------------------

Dwayne Jennings

Body bushings, stiff rear Bilstiens, stock size K+N, polyurethane endlinks, Jacobs ignition
,Moog idler arm, T/B bypass, GM deep tranny pan, Impala wheels are in will go on in spring

[This message has been edited by 96capriceMGR (edited April 08, 2001).]
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 10:06 AM
kdrolt
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBODYLTZN:
question for the 305 guys what mods have you guys done to you 305's what 1/4 mile are you's runnin im trying to figure out what i'm doing wrong i know the 305 has more potential than 16.5-17.5 at the 1/4 mile any tips thanks
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've tried to help you out before on your 305; you need to go back and read all those posts because the answers (besides using a higher stall torque converter) are all there.

I'm going to summarize your 305 problem for you, and I'm also going to give numbers for the 350 (LO5). I used a computer program called CarTest to come up with these numbers and they are very representative and believable.

I modeled a '93 Caprice with LO3, 2.56 rear end, 4200 lbs, everything stock. I also modeled a '93 Caprice with LO5, 3.42, 4200 lbs, also stock. I call both of these STOCK cases.

I then modded BOTH, first with cheap-simple mods (cold air, better exhaust, TBI mods via ThirdGen.org, shift kit) to show just what that will get you. I call this the MILD mods case.

I then went one step further by doing a gearswap (to 3.73 for both of the above cars, and I retained the cheap-simple mods), and by doing an F/Y LT1 stock cam swap. I call this the MILD+1 case.

The STOCK LO3 305 went from 170 [email protected] and 255 [email protected], to 190 [email protected] and 265 ftlbs @ 2600 for the MILD case, and to 260 fwhp @ 5000 and 290 ftlbs @ 3000 for the MILD+1 case. Both the MILD and MILD+1 cases are really very mild because the mods and cam are quite mild.

The STOCK LO5 350 went from 205 [email protected] and 300 [email protected], to 220 [email protected] and 310 ftlbs @ 2500 for the MILD case, and to 290 fwhp @ 5000 and 340 ftlbs @ 3200 for the MILD+1 case. Again both the MILD and MILD+1 cases are really very mild because the mods and cam are quite mild. Also note that the MILD+1 case is very similar to a slightly modded 94-96 LT1 Bcar.


---------------
LO3 STOCK
rear end: 2.56
cam: stock
trans: stock
0-60: 9.4 sec
0-80: 16.6
1/4 ET: 16.8
1/4 trap 80.5 mph
top speed: 126 mph in D
-------------------
LO3 MILD
rear end: 2.56
cam: stock
trans: shift kit
0-60: 8.4 sec
0-80: 14.9
1/4 ET: 16.3
1/4 trap 83.6 mph
top speed: 131 mph in D
-------------------------
LO3 MILD+1
rear end: 3.73
cam: F/Y LT1
trans: shift kit
0-60: 7.0 sec
0-80: 12.3
1/4 ET: 15.5
1/4 trap 89.4 mph
top speed: 147 mph in OD
----------------
LO5 STOCK (9C1)
rear end: 3.42
cam: stock
trans: stock
0-60: 8.2 sec
0-80: 15.1
1/4 ET: 16.4
1/4 trap 83.1
top speed: 133 in OD
-------------------
LO5 MILD (9C1)
rear end: 3.42
cam: stock
trans: shift kit
0-60: 7.7 sec
0-80: 13.7
1/4 ET: 16.0
1/4 trap 85.7
top speed: 136 in OD
---------------------
LO5 MILD+1 (9C1)
rear end: 3.42
cam: F/Y LT1
trans: shift kit
0-60: 6.6 sec
0-80: 11.5
1/4 ET: 15.2
1/4 trap 91.4
top speed: 150 in OD


What can be learned from this science exercise? The LO3 CAN be made to run well, and essentially even with a stock 94-96 LT1 car, but you will ONLY get there if you do more than cheap/simple bolt ons to the intake and exhaust.

The LO3 can be made to run even better than 15.5 @ 89.4 mph if you do more than what I suggested. I think an LO3 can go into the 14s without that much trouble, because there are Fcar owners with LO3 running low 14s or better. The weight difference would equate to 0.6 to 0.8 secs longer ET from the Fcar to the Bcar.

You also said you believed that there was more to 16.8-17.5 quarter mile performance for an LO3 Caprice in the quarter, and that suggests you ran the car recently on the track and got 16.8. Well, those numbers are right about where an LO3 Caprice LTZ should be with a few bolt ons and you in the car. And you are right -- there CAN be more performance to the LO3 but not with what limited mods you've done to it.

If you really want the car to go faster ON A BUDGET (as you have said before), you should learn from the LO3 Fcar owners on the ThirdGen web site, AND you MUST do a cam swap. Your LO3 will never give you the power you want until you do that at the minimum.

You can also see what the 350 would do for you. Actually the 350 performance with the MILD+1 mods would be better than I have shown because the torque band is actually better than I had modeled, but I didn't want to fuss with it. What I ran for these six cases is enough to prove the point.

You can't WILL your LO3 to go much quicker than it has, with the mods you have. You're gonna be stuck in the high 16s until you do some real mods; for a STOCK LO3, that means the cam is the problem, and the heads would be next. You need to make up for the 45 cubic inches that you are missing. You need to change the cam, and that CAN be a cheap mod IF you do the work yourself; and you should try to do something to the heads.

You could use nitrous, but remember that all the money you spend on the setup, plus the cost of refilling the bottle, could be spent on either mods for the 305 (mods that could be later used on a 350), or on a 350-cheap-buildup while the 305 is still in the car.

The cam is a must do, for you, and I'd get Vortec heads and the appropriate intake too. That will put you into the 14s IMO, and those parts could also be used on a (later) 350 if you chose to go that way.

This is my last post on making your 305 faster --- all the initial info you need has already been posted by me or others on this and the http://www.thirdgen.org forum.

FYI and FWIW. - Ken



[This message has been edited by kdrolt (edited April 09, 2001).]
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 05:05 PM
threeimpalas
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Two words: Crate Motor

You can get one with ample power for a very affordable price now.
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-10-2001, 10:38 AM
BBODYLTZN
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ok today is tuesday the 10 im going to the shop thursday and im putting in a 4.10 gear that should help a lil huh ha ha ha what do you guys think about a 4.10 gear

------------------
92 CAPRICE LTZ stock 305,3.23gears,pete jackson gear drive,K&Nfilter,duel exuast,ssgrille,clear fronts and rear lights,msd 8.5 wires x4plugs
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT
DONT DRINK AND DRIVE YOU WILL SPILL YOUR BEER
http://hometown.aol.com/bbodyltzn/
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-10-2001, 11:42 AM
kdrolt
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBODYLTZN:
ok today is tuesday the 10 im going to the shop thursday and im putting in a 4.10 gear that should help a lil huh ha ha ha what do you guys think about a 4.10 gear
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

94-96 LT1 Bcars that go to 3.73 ring-pinion ratio from 3.08 improve by 0.15 to 0.20 secs typically in the quarter. So your 16.8 sec quarter mile ET with 3.23 *might* drop to 16.6 sec with 4.10. Of course, with your flow-challeged 305 (stock heads), you'll only be taking the engine out of its useful torque band (idle to 4000 rpm) sooner with 4.10s.... so YOUR car might actually be slower.

PT Barnum, your turn. - Ken



[This message has been edited by kdrolt (edited April 10, 2001).]
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-10-2001, 09:43 PM
BBODYLTZN
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so then what should i do then go with the 4.10 or the 3.73 im now saving a lil $$$$ for the LT1 cam i'll be getting soon but im more conserned about the rearend because its making some noises it shouldnt be making so i want to get the rear done asap if thier going to have the rear open i might as well have the gear changed to save some time and money what do you guys think thanks

------------------
92 CAPRICE LTZ stock 305,3.23gears,pete jackson gear drive,K&Nfilter,duel exuast,ssgrille,clear fronts and rear lights,msd 8.5 wires x4plugs
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT
DONT DRINK AND DRIVE YOU WILL SPILL YOUR BEER http://hometown.aol.com/bbodyltzn/

[This message has been edited by BBODYLTZN (edited April 10, 2001).]
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