Important Question on Understeer... - Chevy Impala SS Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2002, 01:35 PM
CreepinOnU
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Is it better to have neutrality or the tendency toward understeer... what can happen if you are dead neutral? I know understeer is correctable by easing of the juice, but what happens when the suspension is neutral?

Creep
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2002, 06:59 PM
ToddsSS
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The most simple way I have ever hear it explained is as follows:

At the point where your tire loose adhesion and you are sliding toward the tire barrier:

Understeer means your going to hit them with the front ov your car.

Oversteer means your going to hit them with the rear of you car

Neutral means you going to hit them with one side of the car.

In all reality "DEAD NEUTRAL" is attainable only during a very narrow segment of driving a given course. Too much brake, too much throttle, too quick or harsh movments of the steering wheel can all take a car from oversteer through neutral into oversteer.
I have entered a turn too fast and had the car starting to push (understeer) then get it settled in the corner (neutral) and then got on the throttle a bit early and ended up loose (overrsteering) on the exit.

Basically neutral is great for a controlled and s m o o t h driver. I have gotten a lot smoother with practice and tend to turn faster laps in a car that is a bit loose (oversteers).

PS - Smooth doesn't mean S l o w.
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2002, 07:24 PM
Erik
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Basically neutral is great for a controlled and s m o o t h driver. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why it is generally said that a little understeer is better than a little oversteer. Oversteer is harder to control and if your dead neutral, it's more likely that you'll get oversteer from time to time.
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2002, 09:32 PM
cheavy
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Most cars are designed with understeer built in because understeer is simpler to counter: Step on the brake. In this case, instinct is correct-traction usually returns to the front wheels and the car makes it thru the turn. FWD+soft rear roll rates+lots of front brake bias=People safely reading their paper while eating breakfast and driving.

These same people who encounter oversteer will also step on the brake. Unfortunately, that may have ALREADY been the CAUSE of the oversteer. Then again, maybe it wasn't, but stepping on the brake is not usually the correct answer. In fact, taking your foot [all the way] off the gaspedal COULD make it worse before you can even get your foot on the brake.
Oversteer is like a knife. You have to know how to play with it so that you don't get anyone hurt with it. But it's fun.
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-01-2002, 07:33 AM
creepinonu
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So is it better to get the F-body front and HO rear sway bars? Or the Ho Front and HA rear bars?

Creep
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-01-2002, 07:36 AM
Knightshade
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All things considered, it's probably a little _safer_ to get the HO/HA bars front and rear. It's _better_ to get the HO/HA rear and F-body front. This assumes that by _better_ you mean "can go around corners the fastest"
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-01-2002, 08:39 AM
Whisperjet
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Tire pressures can also affect the "understeer-oversteer" equation as well.

I keep hearing all of the praise for the "F" front bar because of its near neutral handling characteristics. Would someone explain to me why the "F" bar with its end-links and bushings is better reacting than the HA front bar with the double tie rods. I have been under the assumption that the end links and bushings must first flex a little bit before they react with the bar . . is that true? The reason I purchased the HA complete setup was that the solid connections made more sense to me. The fact that there was a Group Purchase of around 30 people didn't hurt either &lt;hehehe&gt; If the "F" bar had the better tie rod ends (which are also greasable), I might consider changing. I also don't hear anything about Herb Adams new design that he did for SLP. I believe it also has the double tie rods . .did that ever materialize?
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-01-2002, 12:15 PM
AutocroSSer
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I keep hearing all of the praise for the "F" front bar because of its near neutral handling characteristics. Would someone explain to me why the "F" bar with its end-links and bushings is better reacting than the HA front bar with the double tie rods.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The theory is that the smaller F-bar lends the car to be less understeer prone than the HA/HA combo. I ran the F/HA combo for a while, with stock springs, and it is QUITE neutral.

However, I think my current combo (with the stiffer GW front springs, stock rear springs) handles a good bit better despite being LESS oversteer biased than the F/HA combo with the stock springs. It is definitely more controllable.....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have been under the assumption that the end links and bushings must first flex a little bit before they react with the bar . . is that true?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, although you can adjust preload on the endlinks to lessen this effect (namely, by tightening them beyond the 13 ft-lb stock factory spec). But, it will NOT be as direct a connection as the HA tierod setup.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The reason I purchased the HA complete setup was that the solid connections made more sense to me. The fact that there was a Group Purchase of around 30 people didn't hurt either &lt;hehehe&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good reason [img]smile.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If the "F" bar had the better tie rod ends (which are also greasable), I might consider changing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't. With stock springs, I'd stick with what you have now.....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I also don't hear anything about Herb Adams new design that he did for SLP. I believe it also has the double tie rods . .did that ever materialize?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It did, with a matching 35mm rear bar.

Unfortunately, SLP made the (bad) decision to price themselves right out of the market with a $700 ($700!!!) pricetag on the set!

Needless to say, with alternatives that handled as well (or better) for a LOT less $$$, they didn't sell many sets and to the best of my knowledge have discontinued them.
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-01-2002, 02:17 PM
Whisperjet
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Thanks Ed
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