What did you do to your Wagon this week? - Page 213 - Chevy Impala SS Forum
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post #2121 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix Until Broke View Post
The picture in the earlier post is just a cut/resize/paste of the stock wheel photo over the standard 15" wheel with a 31x10.50x15 light truck tire on it (same OD as the 22's I'm looking at)... Here's the original picture



......


[Yosemite Sam:: Richa Ratcha frikka Dadburnit/::] Well thanks at least for fessin' up there. I thought I hit the look I'm after.



.........

Now I just need to figure out a way to do this that is robust and serviceable. The compromise with this solution is that I will loose some steering angle (about a 1/4" at the spindle stops) since the tie rods/center link hit the oil pan before the spindle stop. I would have to pull the engine and weld in pockets on the oil pan to get full steering angle. It's possible, but I'm just not willing to do that at this point. If the engine needs to come out in the future, then I'll do it. For now, I'll just add spacers to the spindle stop


In a 'not even close to valid engineering perspective' sorta way, I saw that pic and figured a good candidate for a 'backward, upside down or both' attack on a solution. As in, flip the pitman arm and idler arm sides of your cutoffs outboard and shorten the tie-rods to match. It might put the end swivels closer to bind through full suspension limits, but do not immediately appear to limit steering travel. The upside to all this would sure seem to be less moment distance on all components and able to weld in a stouter cx bar closer to the pitman/idler.



Also, during full front-end rebuild I did this entirely by dufus accident letting the jack slip from the crossmember after just a couple pumps onto the steering link. The metal is soft enough the bearing did not "appear" damaged and was able to travel smoothly across full travel. I didn't realize I damaged anything until I couldn't get everything bolted back up - after 20 tries. Entirely uncertain whether altering the angle of the idler and pitman down a few degrees to clearance the pan is contraindicated as far as steering geometry goes. New fubared on top. 'New' new replacement on bottom.




\'96SS SOB: SSRI, Herter Tune, Tri-Y II, , 3000 Edge, F/HO bars, METCO extendeds with CV MMC, Bilsteins, currently Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta (315/35 rear)
\'96FWB BUW-Butt Ugly White: PCMPerformance tune, HDFA w/ swissed filter, 1/2 SLP s.s. catback with H- and Flow Super 50s, oem opti rebuilt 3 times, SS Bars, METCO LCA, Airlift 1000, Monroe SS, PowerTrax No-Slip, CTS wheels with +1 rubber. Finally, wait for it... LT-4 knock module!
96 Black is online now  
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post #2122 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 01:06 PM
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Sorry to disappoint on that look you're after. I have seen wheel "back covers" that might get you the look you want. A variety of options here to suit many different tastes

https://www.universalcarlifts.com/pr...-dust-shields/

So...my original solution a few posts up kept the tie rods more/less in the stock location, however shortened them about 1" each so they'd clear the oil pan. This changes the arc that they move through (shorter) which therefore changes the toe (a lot!). With the 1996 geometry being what it is (pitman and idler arm are different lengths, pitman to inner ball joint is about half the distance as idler to ball joint, unequal length control arms so the caster changes since the outer tie rod is a bit above the lower ball joint, etc) trying to come up with a solution that is "better" than what is already designed without having all of the pivot points in all 3 dimensions to be able to mathematically model it up seems like a lot of trial and error.

I like the idea of flipping the pitman/idler side to side, but am not sure how to pull that off since the inner tie rod ends need to stay in the OEM location for proper steering/suspension interaction.

Since the 1996 center link has joints in it, I need it to be serviceable, therefore whatever solution I come up with can't overheat the joints so I'm thinking it needs to be "Bolt on". I don't mind buying a new center link and cutting the center out again as shown above, however I don't want to have to send things out for stress relieving/heat treating after welding (assuming I can keep the joint cool enough during a welding process).

I'm open to ideas, but am thinking of something like this on each end to connect to the center link and then a bar across the bottom somehow. The "pinch bolt" would go into a dimple/hole in each end of the center link as a secondary lock from sliding/twisting/etc.

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post #2123 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 01:58 PM
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I wonder if I could make something like this work to get the steering travel back without having to weld pockets in my oil pan...? Offset them toward the ball joint. I believe they have 1" of offset which would be about right.

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post #2124 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 02:30 PM
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Do you have access to and old operating system computer , like window 95-98 ?
If so I might have an old geometry program that might help you .

Look at some of Howes offerings as basis for scratch building a centerlink.

They have ends and stuff that are adjustable, disassemble"able"

https://howeracing.com/index.php/cen...-modified.html

https://howeracing.com/index.php/store/steering.html

https://howeracing.com/index.php/sto...es-es150r.html

https://howeracing.com/index.php/sto...lder-stud.html

You could weld end housings that the pins are removable to a thick plate profiled to clear the pan best as possible


The First
LS7 T56 6 Speed Wagon
Katech cam , 550 rwhp
11.79 @ 120.65


LS7 T56 drag video
My Wagon
My W-31 Cutlass

Last edited by 95wagon; 04-23-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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post #2125 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM
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Fabbed,

Like this picture pirated off the internet


https://allstarperformance.com/cente...ered-all56334/
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The First
LS7 T56 6 Speed Wagon
Katech cam , 550 rwhp
11.79 @ 120.65


LS7 T56 drag video
My Wagon
My W-31 Cutlass

Last edited by 95wagon; 04-23-2019 at 02:39 PM.
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post #2126 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix Until Broke View Post
.....
I like the idea of flipping the pitman/idler side to side, but ......

D'oH! Yah, maybe the tie-rod lengths are a factor of ackerman angle set by wb:track. I'll climb off that dead horse. But there was a recent thread making sidelong reference to a circle track rack n pinion that fits our cars well. I recall ?Nab or one of the other aged guard posted something. Maybe that could clear the pan.

\'96SS SOB: SSRI, Herter Tune, Tri-Y II, , 3000 Edge, F/HO bars, METCO extendeds with CV MMC, Bilsteins, currently Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta (315/35 rear)
\'96FWB BUW-Butt Ugly White: PCMPerformance tune, HDFA w/ swissed filter, 1/2 SLP s.s. catback with H- and Flow Super 50s, oem opti rebuilt 3 times, SS Bars, METCO LCA, Airlift 1000, Monroe SS, PowerTrax No-Slip, CTS wheels with +1 rubber. Finally, wait for it... LT-4 knock module!
96 Black is online now  
post #2127 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 06:35 PM
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95wagon - Thanks for the info on those components. I wonder how well they will hold up on daily street use? I don't have any old PC's of that era around unfortunately.

The picture you showed and/or a center link like this camaro one are on the same path as I'm going down.



Regarding a rack/pinion solution - I considered that, however short of a full re-engineer of the suspension (or being really lucky!), the inner tie rod ends need to follow the OEM path to avoid huge amounts of bump steer. so I still have a crankshaft in the way of the OEM center link location so I'm not sure how a R/P setup would be any advantage.

Thanks again for everyone's comments/suggestions - There's a solution, just need to find it .
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post #2128 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 04:12 PM
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Bought some 20” staggered wheels for it. Now I just need to drop them off to get cleaned up and get some tires for them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Moco
Cold Coronas, I Got Cold Coronas! 🍻🍻






95 Impala SS -82k-Custom
94 Caprice L99 SS project-132k-Sold
95 Caprice L99 SS clone -80k LT1 swap-Sold (best car I ever owned)
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post #2129 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 06:05 PM
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Those are nice - what offset/backspacing?
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post #2130 of 2138 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix Until Broke View Post
Those are nice - what offset/backspacing?
not sure on offset or backspacing. All I know is that the fronts are 20x8.5 and rears are 20x10. They were also on a 1998 Suburban prior to me purchasing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Moco
Cold Coronas, I Got Cold Coronas! 🍻🍻






95 Impala SS -82k-Custom
94 Caprice L99 SS project-132k-Sold
95 Caprice L99 SS clone -80k LT1 swap-Sold (best car I ever owned)
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