1995 Impala SS VATS questions - Chevy Impala SS Forum
 
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 05-27-2017, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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1995 Impala SS VATS questions

Specifically keep in mind my cars story if you will.

Discription/Background: When I purchased my car, the previous owner stated that the VATS had been bypassed with a resistor. Ok, down the road, I began to have some problems starting the car with the key. It would start sometimes and sometimes not. (the Pass light was not on when I bought the car but I can recall my car stalling once and the passlight blinked I think.) Anyways, after having this occational problem (which was getting worse), I installed a toggle switch from a constant hot, to my dash, to the starter. It works every time from then and up to today. Ok. So sometime after having installed the toggle switch, I replaced the column. I wont get into that..(Im guessing the new column with keys provided wont match the TDM (Theft Deterrent module which is one of my questions on this post) Ok now, furthermore after installing the toggle switch, My Pass Key light has been solid ON all the time for a long time. Couple years or more. ( Thats another question and I'll ask at the end of this post). NOTE: My car up to about a week ago, will start with a key-only rarely. Sometimes when I turn the key realllly reallllly slowly, it seems to grab its area of problem and find its connection. My mind is telling me a slide switch is faulty like the old days. I have no clue because Im just tearing into this "TDM and Relay area recently. Ok, all that aside, I looked for the resistor and it was there but cut or broke and not making its connection back into the second wire. I'll ask now. How is my car starting and staying running? Does this mean a previous owner has tuned the VATS out? I went to Radio Shack today, picked up resistors of the same value, installed them and my Passkey light is off now. BUT, it still wont start with a key. REMEMBER, Not that it matters because my car was bipassed before I changed my column and new key. You understand what Im saying,

Recap: I was driving for months and years with a resistor that was not working and a passkey light. A new resistor made it shut off.

Questions:
1. Has my car been resistored and VATS Delete tuned? (how does it stay running resistor or not)??
2. How come my car runs with or without resistor bypassed or not? ( The light went out thats all)
3. ((((Id really like to know the answer to this one)))). I have a new column and key. Is it very important for me to keep note of my resistor value, in a safe place, being I do not have any previous keys that match the stock TDM? Can a TDM be tested for its resistor ohm value, assuming I may want to match a key someday?

This is just a further question so anyone who knows, feel free to answer as I really want to know this as well. Ive heard that after a resistor bypass, that the TDM starts failing too. Is this true? I put my resistor back in ( a new one) , the light went out, but still does not start with the key. I found a company called Newrockies or something like that that says something on what Im asking about TDM's failing. I opened mine today, the board looks new. I dont know... Im kind of asking expert advice here. Im no genius so be easy. Thanks.

Last NOTE: I know I said keep my car in mind and that says you really dont know whats under my dash and whats been changed. I understand that and will say this.
My electrical has not really been tampered with too much.
Everything is there and in tact. Anything thats been cut is connected.
I bought the car with 118k.
No hanging wires or anything.
No check engine light (the light works)
Passes smog legally.
K&N.
MSD Coil.
Spin tech exhaust.
New cats.
Rebuilt trans.
New rear main seal.
New ac delco opti and drive seals.
New water pump
New plugs and wires.
Runs strong.
Only synthetic oil.
New Ac Delco fuel sending unit.
New low oil sensor
Only thing. ****Never changed the O2 sensors. (I know there is other things)

Last edited by helpthe95; 05-28-2017 at 02:39 AM.
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 01:17 AM
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This topic has been beaten to death many times on this and other fourms and is covered in the FSM.

Quote:
being I do not have any previous keys that match the stock TDM? Can a TDM be tested for its resistor ohm value, assuming I may want to match a key someday?
If you have all the resistor combinations (15) and a lot of time you can "find" the right value. The VATS has a "lock out time" (3min) that it uses if the wrong key is used. So you have to wait 4 min each time. The resistor you have that turned out the VATS light should lead you to the key pellet value.

Quote:
Has my car been VATS Delete tuned?
If the engine will run without the VATS PWM (55 Hz?) to the PCM it has been programed out. (Cut the wire to be sure) You have bypassed the VATS relay to your starter with your switch. Normally a programmed VATS bypass also has the VATS relay to the starter bypassed as well or the starter will not work

Quote:
I put my resistor back in ( a new one) , the light went out,
The VATS is stupid. If the resistor wire is broken (like yours was) It will start and run with the VATS light on. So when a thief wants your car he breaks the column and cuts the resistor wires and away he goes with no key When the key is dirty or the cylinder contacts are dirty you can not start the car. (then the resistor bypass fixes the issue but so would a new cylinder or key)

If your starter bypass switch is getting power to the starter you have a starter problem not a VATS issue.

Quote:
Sometimes when I turn the key realllly reallllly slowly, it seems to grab its area of problem and find its connection.
This would be a good enough reason to replace the switch or look for burnt connections.

Z09B4U
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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z09B4U View Post
This topic has been beaten to death many times on this and other fourms and is covered in the FSM.

If you have all the resistor combinations (15) and a lot of time you can "find" the right value. The VATS has a "lock out time" (3min) that it uses if the wrong key is used. So you have to wait 4 min each time. The resistor you have that turned out the VATS light should lead you to the key pellet value.

If the engine will run without the VATS PWM (55 Hz?) to the PCM it has been programed out. (Cut the wire to be sure) You have bypassed the VATS relay to your starter with your switch. Normally a programmed VATS bypass also has the VATS relay to the starter bypassed as well or the starter will not work

The VATS is stupid. If the resistor wire is broken (like yours was) It will start and run with the VATS light on. So when a thief wants your car he breaks the column and cuts the resistor wires and away he goes with no key When the key is dirty or the cylinder contacts are dirty you can not start the car. (then the resistor bypass fixes the issue but so would a new cylinder or key)

If your starter bypass switch is getting power to the starter you have a starter problem not a VATS issue.

This would be a good enough reason to replace the switch or look for burnt connections.
I have to kindly disagree with your statement on a portion of your answers and this is maybe because you misunderstood what I said about the bypass switch I ran. Maybe I did not clarify it enough in my post and I will try again. This is what you said and I will talk about the bypass switch at the end.

You said, "The VATS is stupid. If the resistor wire is broken (like yours was) It will start and run with the VATS light on. So when a thief wants your car he breaks the column and cuts the resistor wires and away he goes with no key When the key is dirty or the cylinder contacts are dirty you can not start the car. (then the resistor bypass fixes the issue but so would a new cylinder or key) If your starter bypass switch is getting power to the starter you have a starter problem not a VATS issue."

I agree that the VATS is stupid. Furthermore, my car did run with the resistor wire broken for a long period of time. It even starts here and there with a the key that came with a "new column" and "key" I had sent to my house. NOTE: I changed my whole column and key because I myself busted my old column because I had lost the keys to the old column. <<<<<Anyways, how can my new column and key start my car with the resistor not connected where it goes into the system side of things?. That can only happen if the Theft Deterrent Module has been tuned out??? Right? Or is it true that my car will start and stay running with the resistor wire cut but PASSKEY light ON if it were not tuned out?. Thats what I want to know. My resistor has been disconnected for months.. How come my vehicle stays running with no resistor and light on? Again, my light has been solid "on" everyday for months. Few years actually.

Now about my toggle switch bypass I ran. Im clarifying here. My toggle switch is a totally separate circuit from my vehicles wiring. I ran a wire from a constant hot under the hood. To be specific. I ran it off the hot post near the fuse box. It goes from there, through my firewall to a switch. Then, it goes out that toggle switch directly to the starter. I turn my key on-flip the spring loaded switch-fires right up-stays running. How?? I don't know but it does. Thats why I asked if the TDM is tuned out of the main computer up near the air filter. I had my TDM out in my hands today. Relay cube too-the Bosch one. It didn't look like anyone has messed with anything up in there physically. All wires look fresh and uncut. About my starter. There is nothing wrong with my starter. I put the starter in myself. Finally, my previous starter did the same thing. It would grab its connection sometimes somehow. I cant remember why I changed the starter exactly but I did. My new (few years old now) starter is the one that I connected my separate self-made-circuit-toggle-switch wire too. My little toggle switch never ever has given me a problem. My key sends power to the starter. My toggle does the rest. As far as my VATS goes. All I know is what I said above and Im wanting to think that square Box relay may be whats going on or going bad. Why? Because, and I repeat, I've turned the key really really slowly to listen to the relays and where they are and have heard the Bosch relay (near the TDM) kind of squeal a couple just before grabbing a connection and starting. This grabbing effect even worked when I turn the key to starting "spring forward" position and releasing really really slow. And it started. Ive made this happen within the last few weeks. As far as my starter goes. My old starter and new starter displayed the same symptom with the keys and both columns. its not my starter.

Maybe I confused you by using the word "bypass" in my original post. I never bypassed any harness wiring to another location within wiring or anything complicated like that. I totally ran my own wire. Hot to toggle switch. Toggle switch to starter. I dont particularly like it that way, but I leave the grocery store every time I need to. And, that is what counts for me. Its going to stay that way too until I find a better solution. Every time I get in my car, I try the key first. Sometimes I get lucky. As for the toggle. Never failed yet.

Last edited by helpthe95; 05-28-2017 at 02:49 AM.
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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Z09B4U, When you say the VATS is stupid, are you saying that when a brand new 1995 Impala rolled off the assembly line, brand spanking new, with no defects what so ever, anybody can cut the 2 VATS wires, break the column and drive away with the dash light on? All this with no resistor in place?
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Z09B4U, When you say the VATS is stupid, are you saying that when a brand new 1995 Impala rolled off the assembly line, brand spanking new, with no defects what so ever, anybody can cut the 2 VATS wires, break the column and drive away with the dash light on? All this with no resistor in place?
Yes. you only have to cut one wire to break the circuit. It allows the car to crank and run as the VATS is thinking there is a problem.

If you searched the forum you would find many posts that start " my light has been on for ..." weeks, months, or years "and my car runs".

I understood your toggle switch. It "hot wires" a connection to the starter for cranking.

If you do not like my answer get a FSM and follow the diagnostic charts.

I do not have the time to quote the FSM to back up everything.


The Four VATS Modes:

VATS sees a correct resistor value, powers the VATS/starter relay to allow cranking, and sends a PWM signal to the PCM.

VATS sees a open circuit, lights the VATS light, powers the VATS/starter relay to allow cranking, and sends a PWM signal to the PCM.

VATS sees a bad resistor value, lights the VATS light, does NOT power the VATS/starter relay to allow cranking, and does NOT send a PWM signal to the PCM.

The engine is running and the resistor signal becomes bad. The engine will run and the VATS light will be turned on.

Z09B4U

Last edited by Z09B4U; 05-28-2017 at 11:23 AM. Reason: clarity
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