Chevy Impala SS Forum banner

No start, no codes

5K views 43 replies 8 participants last post by  HUF 
#1 ·
Hi guys,
Just replaced my starter, now engine cranks but won't fire. Engine ran fine 4 days ago. Car has about 1/3 tank of fuel & front end is still up on jackstands (not sure if this would make a difference).
Can hear fuel pump runs when ingition switched to key on. Is there an easy way to test for spark?
Thanks
 
#2 ·
I've hooked up a starter before either missing a wire or getting one on the wrong post. It would crank but not start. Nosey, why did you replace the starter? As long as you don't have the car jacked a lot higher than a San Francisco hill then not an issue. ;)
 
#3 ·
Yeah, I figured an incline wouldn't prevent engine from starting. I replaced the bendix drive gear & solenoid in the starter because when trying to start the car, the starter motor would spin but the engine wouldn't turn over.
Only reason I figured starter might be cause of no start is if it couldn't crank engine fast enough, but it does seem to crank fast enough (I've got no way to monitor rpm while cranking)
 
#4 ·
I've got spark & I can smell fuel at the tailpipe after cranking. I connected a scan tool to read rpm while cranking, it indicates about 150 rpm.
What is the minimum cranking speed required to start engine?
Thanks
 
#5 ·
UPDATE car started up this morning, I let it warm up, turned it off & started it back up 3 times in a row no problem. I let the car cool for an hour, came back and started it up no problem, let it warm up.
At this point I figured the starter is fine and maybe the car wasn't starting because something was wet. (I had a half inch of water on my garage floor)
I took it for a drive & the engine died at the end of my street. Still, no codes. I did notice that on the optispark end of the coil wire was a small red sleeve around the wire that is cracked. Does my optispark need to be replaced?
 
#33 ·
Read up this diagnostics link. Here is a part you might pay attention:

"Something that I have run into that causes a no start is a bad coil wire. Sometimes the opti end of the wire will crack and distort causing a lot of internal arcing and bad contact. If you look into the opti end there should be a plastic insert that keeps the wire centered and making good contact. if it’s cracked or broken replace it."
 
#6 · (Edited)
Find someone with a live data scanner or computer program. It is easier to plug in to check than probe the OPTI. A intermittent problem is hard to work on, but if it does not start you should be able to get real information on the problem.


If you have spark and injectors the OPTI is working.(does not mean it is working properly) Do you still have these now?
 
#7 ·
Yes, I had a battery charger on the battery between tries. Do you know what speed the starter should turn at?
Because the car died while driving, I think something else is wrong
 
#8 ·
I'm not there to hear, but kinda thinking it's gonna be pretty easy (for anyone who's been driving even a few years) to tell whether there's even a hint of the starter dragging lower than normal speed. What's your ear tell you that you have a concern there? During the time to arrange a scanner or program I'd be pointing the most attention toward replacing that wire and making the business case to do new IC and ICM (always together) since they're normal maint. items after about a 1/4 century. And if the car's never gotten distributor tune-up parts then it's WAY overdue.
 
#9 ·
Because the car died while driving, I think something else is wrong
Sorry I edited my first post when you reported back. I have no crank data but you got it to start.


The OPTI has two sensors one that senses coarse position of the pistons. If the PCM gets this data the engine will start but not run well. This data can be scanned on a 94/95 car. The fine data 360 pulses would have to be checked with a scope.


With no diagnostics I would carefully unplug the harness at the OPTI and use a ELECTRONIC spray cleaner on the OPTI and it's connector. There is a second connector on top of the manifold you could also unplug and clean.


I did notice that on the optispark end of the coil wire was a small red sleeve around the wire that is cracked.

I would replace a coil wire before changing the OPTI. Are the plug wires good?
 
#10 ·
Not a smart ass comment but sounds like its simply low on gas.
Even if gauge show 1/3 tank, its probably a lot lower.
I'd check fuel pressure, and if low add 5 gal.
then check spark.

Nab
 
#11 ·
^^^^

IMHO everyone should have a FP gauge to determine if FP is the problem initially before even posting "car won't..."

hearing fuel pump or seeing gas come out of the Schrader valve are not ways to check FP

It takes seconds to test FP, if good than move on to ignition. ICM/Coil are very likely suspects or Opti.....or the wiring going to all of those.
 
#12 ·
UPDATE I had the car towed to the closest garage that said they'd look at it today.
A few hours later, the... office lady from the garage called me & said the car needs a new "coil pack". I said "just the coil?". She says "The coil pack, the whole thing. I'll be $220, all in. You can pick it up at 4:50". Great.
At 4:30 the mechanic calls me and says that he got the wrong coil pack. I asked him if it was only the coil that was bad. He says "It's not the coil, it's the distributor that's bad" and that he's having a hard time sourcing a replacement.
At this point I figure I've got 2 options:
1. leave the car at the garage that uses words "coil" & "distributor" interchangeably
2. Go to garage, pay them for diagnostic & have car towed back to my garage at home, replace distributor myself.
I'm strongly leaning toward option 2.
I go to mechanic's garage to find "Closed" sign in window. Office lady lets me in & I see that they've already removed water pump & distributor. Replacement distributor not yet sourced. Mechanic said he tested fuel pressure, got 40 psi & showed me the "wrong" "coil" that they sent him (I guess it was wrong because it was actually a coil). Since water pump & distributor had been pulled, I left the car at that garage until they tell me when my car will be fixed or how much it'll cost. As of quitting time today, they didn't know.

Can any of you guys tell me which distributor I need?

I've see that most manufacturers (delco reman included) list the same distributor part number for 94, 95 & 96 cars.World Power Systems lists DST1803 for 94 & 95 cars, but has DST1833 for 96. Cardone also has same number for 94 & 95 but different for 96.
I remember reading that some years had vented distributors, among other differences.

I miss my Quadrajet equipped Monte Carlo.
 
#16 ·
UPDATE .... the... office lady from the garage called me & said the car needs a new "coil pack". I said "just the coil?". She says "The coil pack, the whole thing. I'll be $220, all in. ......

I shiver hearing your experience with them. A generic brand ignition coil runs $25. "The whole thing" had to have included the ignition control module and we'll give that $70. You can (and unfortunately too many garages to hike margin) get lower priced ones, but man I sure wouldn't. So, that shop appears to have used the highly scientific calculation that "labor equals parts" - plus a healthy markup on your parts. That is, --> IF <-- the ICM was included. So, --> IF <-- your ICM is new then I would unbolt it to make 100% positive sure there's the correct type and amount of thermal paste. Or you'll be buying it again.



Just a thought you might post up some pics and much wiser guys here than me can give you a remote consultation on at least the external quality of repair.

And just for reference when buying my Cady the previous owner stated he'd had a new "genuine dealer" opti installed 6 months earlier. The receipt for $1,100 did not break out parts and labor, and also did NOT refer to an oem brand ACDelco. It turned out to be a Spectra and I had to remove and repair it less than a year after I bought the car.
 
#13 ·
The shop does not sound confident or competent. They probably replaced the coil to no avail and then decided to replace the distributor. The latter, if you go with ACDelco is a $450 part and there is a way to screw up the installation if they do not know what they are doing.
Replacing a coil pack should not really cost $220. To be honest, that shop looks scary to me.
 
#14 ·
I'd rather have taken it to another shop, but they wouldn't be able to look at it until Tuesday. I was planning on going out of town on Tuesday.
I suppose I could tell them to put all parts they removed in a box & tow my car home.
But, if they were wrong about diagnosis I'm back at square one. I haven't got access to an oscilloscope to test if my spark plugs are firing.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Option #2 is best for you. God I feel for you. Freakin' idiot garage you went to. They will do more harm than good since they have obviously never seen one.

For reference - distributor for our cars - optispark - or opti as used on this forum.

DO NOT let them keep your opti as a core!!

Is it an original GM part? Look for GM p/n 1104032 etched into EDGE of housing. How many miles?

A new cap and rotor is available. And a new opti vent harness.
 
#17 ·
OMG, a term I never used before. I have to agree with 96 on this one. Get your car away from that shop. It looks as if you would need protection from STD because you're going to get bent over.

Mark: Snowman-33
 
#18 ·
From your signature, you list option V92 - trailer option. Which means one mechanical, one electric fan. Is this still in place? Hopefully, it has been converted to 2 electric? We need much more info - we are here to help.

Nice upgrades have been done - Kudos.
 
#20 ·
Yes, car was originally equipped with a mechanical fan & electric fan. I deleted the mechanical fan in October 2018, but have not yes installed a second electric fan since the weather locally doesn't necessitate it. That may change around June.
 
#21 ·
As mentioned by grandpas -



Get.
That.
Original.
Back.


Drive or Uber over before they open Monday, and don't leave without that oem opti. It can be rebuilt, and for multiple reasons even as old as it is, it will turn out more reliable and better performing than the majority of aftermarket are brand new.
 
#27 ·
As mentioned by grandpas -



Get.
That.
Original.
Back.


Drive or Uber over before they open Monday, and don't leave without that oem opti. It can be rebuilt, and for multiple reasons even as old as it is, it will turn out more reliable and better performing than the majority of aftermarket are brand new.

Other than the Mitsubishi optical sensor (which might be failed), is there any special value in the Delco-Remy opti?


Thanks
 
#22 ·
Yes, I will get original opti back.
Can an opti be rebuilt at home?
Are the bearings/bushings replaceable?
Other than erosion/corrosion of cap & rotor, what is it in the opti that actually fails?
The optical sensor? I wouldn't be surprised if mine has oil on it. Can it be cleaned or does something inside it fail?

I'd much rather rebuild it myself than take car to a stealership or glorified tire & lube, even if I have to wait for parts.

Luckily spring is around the corner and I can ride my motorcycle while parts ship.

I never was the type of person to take a car to a repair garage other than for tire mounting/balancing.
Big thanks to everyone on here for their knowledge.
 
#23 ·
Can an opti be rebuilt at home?
Are the bearings/bushings replaceable?
Other than erosion/corrosion of cap & rotor, what is it in the opti that actually fails?
The optical sensor? I wouldn't be surprised if mine has oil on it. Can it be cleaned or does something inside it fail?
Anyone? Bueller?
 
#24 ·
Numerous threads on rebuilding, and yes easily handled at home. Hunt down the several male and female tiny Torx drivers. Here's a couple of more recent ones:
https://www.impalassforum.com/vBull...ms-maintenance/1303385-cheap-opti-thread.html
https://www.impalassforum.com/vBull...3-rebuild-opti-new-parts-old-distributor.html


Be careful with those tiny screws - I snapped 2 of three and had to set up my drill press to drill out and chase the threads. Replacing the bearing is the only head-scratcher as an 'exact' duplicate has not been found. But at least one guy found one similar to use with a thin spacer-washer. And separating the bearing from the shaft introduces potential mis-clocking the optical wheel on reassembly. which itself has been reported as an issue on some new aftermarket names. You'll want quality tune-up parts - cap, rotor.... And get a tube of blue Locktite and di-electric grease. Remember no grease on viton WP seal. Only one way to get the balancer back on correctly, and 2 other wrong ways. It's all in the threads. Be sure to reuse the more reliable heat resistant oem Mitsubishi sensor v. the one out of any aftermarket. And service the vent harness. Also best time in the world to replace plugs/wires while it's all opened up in front.


Quote:
I never was the type of person to take a car to a repair garage other than for tire mounting/balancing.


Haha Me neither. Last time for anything mechanical (not counting A/C work and wh. alignments) was '98 but I don't count that since I was out of the country and my wife had to run the Impala SS to a GM dealer for a mouse nest in the fan. $350 TYVM GDMF. See, now that it's been 20 years I'm not bitter - much. ;)
 
#25 · (Edited)
UPDATE - I called that garage on the morning of 18th. They said they found a new replacement opti locally & that it was on the way & car would be ready before noon & would cost $326, all in. Since I was planning on going out of town the next day, I said great, call me when it's done. They told me where they sourced the part when I asked, too.
After that, I called the part supplier & asked for part number & price. They told me it is an Autoline D2123N & after a LONG hold that it's "for you, it's about $325"...... Greasy:rolleyes:
The garage called me a couple hours later & said the car is ready. They billed me for 1 hour of labor & $197 CAD for the part. (not too bad considering rockauto lists this part for $193 CAD + $15 CAD shipping)
For the past week, the engine has ran fine but I didn't have any heat coming in through the vents & only the vents in the dash would blow air. I found that the vacuum line for the hvac was broken where it comes out of the wiring loom above the engine. I suspect the garage broke it when they were checking fuel pressure.
I've started dissecting my original opti, there is noticeable play in the shaft. How do I remove the plastic piece that's behind the rotor?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Bump / Update
I've got the failed opti disassembled (except for bearing). It's a Delco-Remy unit.
There's no sign that any water had gotten inside it, however there was some oil (too clean to be motor oil) inside it. there's also a streak of that oil on the reluctor wheel.
I found this photo of a rebuilt opti on LS1tech.com for how to maintain correct reluctor hub clocking position relative to coupler. Is there a better way to do this?


Thanks
 

Attachments

#28 ·
Good Pictures and bearing source from babywag:


https://www.impalassforum.com/vBull...3788-ac-delco-reman-optispark-dissection.html


Other than the Mitsubishi optical sensor (which might be failed), is there any special value in the Delco-Remy opti?
The parts should be made better and are clocked correctly. The rub is as you say does the optical sensor work. It can be tested out of the car but you need to know what you are doing.


If you are willing to clear codes after the test you might plug it back into the car. Pull the injector fuses then spin and watch for spark at the plugs.


If you are importing bearings PM me I should get a bearing as well.
 
#29 ·
The saga continues...


Car died on me a few times a couple miles away from home today, CEL came on. Was able to get started back up each time & drove the car home.
I checked the codes through the climate control module. Indicated 48 (misfire) & 90 (TCC error).
A couple of days ago I put some spacers between the IC/ICM & cylinder head in effort to keep ICM cool. Bad idea?

I've only burned 1 tank of fuel since opti was replaced, garage told me there's a 1 year warranty on the part. Are the aftermarket units really that bad?
 
#30 ·
a simple "misfire" combined with a TC clutch code do not immediately appear directly connected to the opti. I opennet searched TCClutch fail just to see total list of symptoms and most likely causes might be outside of a bad solenoid - this link came up first but certain you've dug deeper on your own:
https://autoservicecosts.com/obd2-codes/p0740/
A 'always locked' TC can stall the motor at stops if that's anything close to what is happening to you. Biggest thing on there that jumped off the screen is the ECT sensor. Many aftermarket optis have a 'lifetime' warranty and guys just swap them out annually as they croak. Can you get the shop to tell you what brand you have now? What I've heard of that shop makes me wonder if it's not below them to "limit" the warranty on their own to reduce their exposure for a call-back/replacement. But whadddoI know.


An airgap on the IC/ICM is reported on the forum to be a baddddd idea. The head "never" gets over 200* and thought it acts as heatsink compared to air temp. What's more confirmed is a normal installation using legitimate thermal paste.
 
#31 ·
a simple "misfire" combined with a TC clutch code do not immediately appear directly connected to the opti. I opennet searched TCClutch fail just to see total list of symptoms and most likely causes might be outside of a bad solenoid - this link came up first but certain you've dug deeper on your own:
https://autoservicecosts.com/obd2-codes/p0740/
A 'always locked' TC can stall the motor at stops if that's anything close to what is happening to you. Biggest thing on there that jumped off the screen is the ECT sensor. Many aftermarket optis have a 'lifetime' warranty and guys just swap them out annually as they croak. Can you get the shop to tell you what brand you have now? What I've heard of that shop makes me wonder if it's not below them to "limit" the warranty on their own to reduce their exposure for a call-back/replacement. But whadddoI know.


An airgap on the IC/ICM is reported on the forum to be a baddddd idea. The head "never" gets over 200* and thought it acts as heatsink compared to air temp. What's more confirmed is a normal installation using legitimate thermal paste.

Engine died while coasting or very gently accelerating at ~5mph, stayed running when stopped.
With car in (P), engine intermittently feels rough as if missing when giving it gas. Also (intermittently) ran rough when under load, up hill.

Opti in the car now is Autoline brand.
I will check resistance thru TCC solenoid.
 
#32 ·
It may further confuse issues - but. My wife's Tribute has a bad habit of doing very similar 'sputter or die at low revs for no reason' on the road if I fail to pour in some Techron injector cleaner every 6 months.



Well,

AutoLine DistributorWarranty Policy
1. Autoline distributors have a 1 year warranty from the date of purchase on Domestic
applications. Commercial applications are 90 day from the date of installation.
2. The distributor must not be modified in anyway



Appears to be a poor pick by the mech. if other brands in fact offer lifetime eh. And 2. cracks me up. As if they are aware of history of that occurring. As you say, the saga continues.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top