MMmmmmm OK !!!

KW

 

Good info. I seem to remember a complaint of no slab to work on, would have been over a year ago because it was during my LT1 install, looks like that problem was fixed . I think you gave away that you are single, my wife is pretty forgiving but an engine inside would never happen.

Do you have more info on the shaft rocker mod, another thread or more space on your site devoted to it? More curiosity than anything probably overkill for my daily driver.

 

chuckle...
Hey Dwayne, I could add more info on that I think.

I hope nobody looked at that page right after I accidentally deleted about 1/2 of the files for it. ooops.

I just finished re-uplinking them.

Dwayne, as a matter of fact, I just took my LT4 heads to Terry Samakow for him to do the necessary stud boss machining to fit the Crane shaft system. The crane is for the vortech heads, (and would probably fit well on the LT1 irons). But things are just a bit off for the LT4 heads. The base piece doesn't quite line up with the LT4 head's stud boss holes, (so I'm having Samakow drill clearance the Crane base pieces). And of course the stud bosses need to be machined down for good valve tip rocker tip geometry. (Terry is going to do .125") and hope that will do it so that it's close enough.

The T&D on the 350 engine also needed stud boss machining down .125" The rocker tip is almost perfect but still not perfectly set on the valve tip. The rocker tip is supposed to be just inboard of valve tip centerline with the valve shut, and as-is the rocker tip is just slightly inboard of valve tip centerline..(it should be just a bit more inboard). I think it will be fine.

I also had to hand clearance the T&D base so that my head bolts would not interfere. You really need the heads off the motor for these things.

Karl

 

Hey Karl,

It's good to try new stuff !!! I wish you good #'s with the new cam....but it is gonna have to pulls some "stuff" to live up to the "lil" 227

SSee ya, Scott

 

Wow Karl - very "healthy" cam for a 350! But with that TC of yours, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Can't wait to hear the results!

 

Karl, I have extra heads and would actually like a whole extra motor(maybe soon looks like lots of OT at work), would you think this would be of any benifit to a daily car? I am going to port some heads and have the valves replaced, I was planning to do enough machining to be able to run 1.6 safely with most cams, if the shaft rockers would be quieter as well as the other benifits I might concider it. I like to have a sleeper but right ow the rockers make too much noise, for now they are cheap Proform 1.5s, from posts on forum there really are no quiet roller rockers I just want quieteER.
If I do get a whole motor I was thinking of trying either the 227 or the 845, those two seem to work well.

 

I wonder if you can sense that I'm a bit chicken to see how this works. I hope the cam is not too much for my heads.
I'm going to have the exact same chassis tuneup for this 846 cam test that I had for the 227 cam. That is, my Vigilante is going back on behind the motor and my rebuilt 4L60E is going in. I didn't run with the bumpers removed way back then, so with that known, the 846 cam will have to pull me at least .1 second quicker than the 227 cam just to be even.

These shaft rockers a certainly overkill for this mild motor. That's important to mention. (I did it really on a whim and for nothing else but that).

I just hope I don't slow down.

Love that slab Dwayne. Notice from the photos how tall it is. It was 6 or so dumptrucks full of fill sand. I think the block wall at it's highest is 7'. That slab may have a high walled garage over it later this year.

Karl

 

oops Dwayne, I posted about 30 seconds after you and missed your reply.
For the shaft rockers, I'll let you know if they are quiet or not, and how the actually perform when the car get's on the street.
I never mentioned the valve covers. The corvette valve covers that I have had to be fully and totally clearance inside of all webbing. These rockers really take up a lot of space. I didn't take photos but you probably get the idea and of where the valve covers would hit the stud rocker's. Tall valve covers would be nice for this but who knows what other clearance problems that would create.
Karl

 

Hey Karl,

No reason to be "chicken" After seeing the way Garrett's ( "not a cop" handle on the forums) 230/236 cam did in a TOTALLY stock head/bottom end ( High mileage at that) on the dyno and at the track...it's worth a shot

Heres a link to one of his threads, and I saw the car on the dyno here before the shootout...I was shocked !!!

http://impalassforum.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006509

It put down a little less on the Dyno-Jet here...but not much. With a decent set of heads, and your "race" set-up..there is reason for promise !! Nothing ventured...nothing gained

Much luck, SSee ya, Scott

 

Hey Scott!!!
You know, That 306 cam was high on my consideration list. It was either the 846 or the 306.
Good reminder on Garrett's set up. The power he makes is ungodly for havin stock heads. Love it!!

 

The 306 is a thumper I LOVE the way they sound, but I am not so brave as to rev them where they like to live

Even more ungodly...Pat G's car with a STOCK cam. To use Chris's analogy, his car is a "freak"... Definantly a "middle of the week" car !!!

I too am interested in how the shaft mounts do. It has to give some high rpm stability to the valvetrain ?? Especially useful to the guys with solid rollers, or super high lift hydraulics.

 

Karl, I learn more everytime I read your posts or your website. Thank you.

 

Yea Pat, remember you promised to rip Mr. freak thumper motor apart one day so that we can disect it and scratch our collective noggins.

Mike, thanks. I was going to reply to your lifer valley vent thread too in a little bit.

Yea Scottie, (can I call you Scottie? hehe)... The cost of the Crane shaft system was $550 and that's not too far away from a set of regular premium rockers and screw in studs, but then the head modifications add $100 plus. And the new pushrods too. (mine ended up being 6.80" I think). So I though it would be somewhat affordable but it really is an esotirec purchase. But like you said, the high lift guys could really bennefit from them.

 

Karl, with your heads, I predict you'll be able to spin the engine about 500 or so rpm higher with the 846 than you could with the 227. I'm looking forward to seeing what it runs.

 

Originally posted by stonebreaker:
Karl, with your heads, I predict you'll be able to spin the engine about 500 or so rpm higher with the 846 than you could with the 227. I'm looking forward to seeing what it runs.

Hmmm....Good point. Going to drop back to 26" tires with the 4.56's?
Karl, Don't hold your breath on the tear down. When I put the nitrous on, I pretty much shelved the idea of a cam swap for a long time. But hey, I reckon y'all will be around here indefintely, so one day when....either the motor breaks and I have to,... or I just get more time on my hands and want to, it will happen. With the way it runs and with only 26k on it, I'm leaving it alone for now.

Pat

 

good point Randy about the rpm. I think I'll set the tune up to shift at 6500rpm and go from there. I was shifting the 227 cam at 6000 about there and I was in valve float at that point too. I didn't install the rev kit and maybe later I'll do that to see if that helps high rpm.

Pat, that poor motor of yours doesn't get enough excersise. so little milage.

Probably still not fully broken in. Will get faster, not slower, I know that.

 

Originally posted by Karl Ellwein:
.....
Pat, that poor motor of yours doesn't get enough excersise. so little milage.

Probably still not fully broken in. Will get faster, not slower, I know that.

It's broken in more than most motors are at 26k

 

Hey Karl:
How come you are not putting the 846 in the 383?

Dan Fahey

 

Just spent a cold afternoon putting the tranny in and hooking up the drivers side header. Ed Wright sent my new tune up and that's here on my laptop.

Still have to hook up the accessories, install the radiator and fill her up with coolant, tranny fluid, and engine oil. Will do that tomorrow at around noon, (when the sun get's the temps up to about 30F).

Have all my oil in the house keeping it warm. Right before its time to start the engine tomorrow, I'm going to put the oil in. That will give me preheated oil. Also have a propane fueled heater-blower shooting under the car.

Only one little mistake so far. I set the engine down on the starter, (the headers on the starter actually). Thought I was going to have to pull the engine up a bit but lucky I was able to man handle the starter out from where I had wedged it and scraped some nice oil pan paint in the process. Loosing an oil line o-ring too, those were the only bumps in the road.

Oh DAn, the 846 didn't go in my 383 because I am only doing solid roller in that motor. Karl

 

Well, I finally decide go with the 227 based mostly on your tried & true experience and now you go do this!

Hell, I don't want to wait another season, year to get the valuable info to help make a decision.

You and Stonebreaker have convinced me. That and my now limited funds.

I ordered a 3000 stall Edge TC. Delivered today according to UPS tracking!

The 3.73 are in. Tri's & Hooker catback on.

RAISS upfront. Plus all the other little stuff.

Got a 14.2 @ 96 on street tires. Which still ISN'T posted on the ET Page. I won't hold it against you. Looks like your kinda busy. Probably was my sorry ass MS Express Outlook anyway. I'm gonna email you w/ the scanned slip attached via my Yahoo account.

Next planned mods will be the 227, or as you have apptly named it the "Mircale Cam". The CM 1.6 RR & Springs kit. New harden pushrods, lifters and timing chain. Some March pullies and a Mezier H2O pump.

This should meet my goals.

Once again, thanks a ton for sharing all of your gained knowledge with the BBody community.

It's guys like you, Stone and Autocrosser who have help many forum members save $, time and avoid mental anquish.

Maybe I'll get to see you run up @ Cecil and/or MIR next season. I've only seen your ride once @ MIR. You where kinda busy. Busy whoopin some bracket racing ass for me to introduce myself.

Keep on keeping.

Lance.

P.S. VA is for Lovers and we do it better

 

Karl -

So, w/ 1.6's the Crane 104227 = a .510"/.553" lift @ valve.

The Crane 109831 w/ 1.6's = a .543"/.563" lift @ the valve.

Will the 831 cam be too much for stock heads?

Also, Crane's webpage claims a range of 75 - 100 hp for 831. True?

What would be the hp range for the 227?

Thanks.

Lance.

 

Hey there Lance. I'm 99% sure that the 109831 cam would be too much for stock heads, (but not too much if the heads were machined for larger diameter valve springs and different oil seals so that the valve won't hit the retainer.

I don't know the power made from either cam. All these combos are all different, stock heads, ported heads...
But the 846 cam is "bigger" so it should make more power torque. But maybe not. We'll see.

I just took the first street test run on the new combo. It runs quite fine overall. It does not feel as strong as my 383 combo. Seat of the pants is that it only feels as strong as the 227cam combo. Well...bummer. But that's seat of the pants and usually I have nailed the butt-o-meter predictions exactly with every combo change. (feels like 12.2.....run a 12.2 at the track) (This feels like a 12.9 actually) So I hope I'm pleasanty suprised and it actually goes quicker.

Turns out I made another very time consuming mistake on this motor install. Long story short, I never put in the rear main seal. bla.
So guess when I realized that....after the whole combo was buttoned up, tranny intalled, 1st test up on jack stands...oil leaking like crazy from the rear. Took me 3 hours to recover from that.

Other than that this cam really is rumpity. It sounds good if you have the idle set for 850rpm I upped it to 950 and it's much smoother between park and drive.

The shaft rockers are AWESOME! The are so quiet! I set the lash just prior to installing the motor a few days ago and I won't even have to pull the valve covers for a re-adjustment. The sound so quiet...compared to all my other roller rockers.

I took a MD state Trooper friend along with me on the maiden voyage and he Loved the ride. Even though we got up past the speed limit for a few moments.

Karl

Photo of what you don't want to see after pulling the tranny and removing the flexplate...
(engine is more red than the photo...for some reason my camera makes it look purplish.)

 

Damn!

It's always the little stuff that gets you.

Thanks for the reply. From what I gathered, I'll stay with and be more than satistfied with 227.

Lance.

 

Yea Lance, I think the 227 cam would be best if matched up with stock or mildy ported heads.
Karl

 

Karl, thats a minor mistake compared to what I did last spring. I hope the new combo treats you well at the track.