Chevy Impala SS Forum banner

'95FWB stumbles/smothers down at light throttle

1 reading
75 views 5 replies 3 participants last post by  sherlock9c1  
#1 ·
Hi, this is going to be a long post. Let me start by saying that I am bringing this car back to life after a long siesta. It's been a ride for sure. I'll list the things I've done so far before I start the discussion on the trouble codes and the stumble I'm having now.
Went through the entire fuel system;
cleaned tank
cleaned fuel lines
cleaned injectors new o-rings
cleaned rails and cross over lines
New fuel pump assembly
New fuel filter
cleaned port on MAP sensor and checked voltage drop under vacuum 100%
cleaned throttle plates

There were several wires that had been chewed away that I am repairing as I find them, the most obvious and easiest ones were the Opti spark harness and two injector pigtails. The car fired up and ran right off after replacing those. Fuel pressure is good @42 idling, jumps up when you accelerate(50 maybe ?? didn't look that closely).
First couple short drives just babying it didn't run real sporty, found out the tranny wasn't going into low had to manually shift it. After a couple rides it wasn't running terrible, but it wasn't right either.
This is when I learned how to read trouble codes through the climate control screen on this site! YAY, that was a good day!. First codes I got from -00 PCM mode was 34, 73 then a handful of transmission codes.
I went to the MAP sensor and found the power wire going to it was chewed through, repaired that then checked for a good MAP sensor. The voltage and drop checked good with vacuum test. 4.98v - 1.18v
THIS IS WHEN I began to get the bad off idle stumble AFTER I got power to the MAP sensor. It never stumbled before I did this. This is also the same time that I noticed when one circuit gets fixed it can create a different issue, not surprised about that. I leaned toward it might be a TPS issue popping up. I am doing one thing at a time to keep this going in the right direction and avoid confusing my old hard head, but I haven't taken any TPS voltage readings yet. Instead, I took a detour and checked the transmission harness at the case plug, it was chewed all to hell. So I wired in a new pigtail hoping it MAY have something to do with the stumble(stranger sh^t has happened!). Tranny problems miraculously went away, shifts great, and it actually takes off in low gear now! Heck yeah!!

Stumble is still there. Lemme say this, the stumble is NOT there when first fired up cold and the car is in open loop, it will take off nice and smooth. At the present, the trouble codes I'm getting on -00 is 18 and 34.

18 - Injector driver circuit voltage to PCM was wrong for 4 seconds.
FIX - Wiring open circuit/short circuit to ground, supply wire, injectors, ECM

34 - MAP sensor signal voltage was too low (high vacuum) when engine speed was under 700 RPM, or when TPS was greater than 20% with an engine speed above 700 RPM.
FIX - Wiring open circuit/short circuit to ground, MAP sensor, ECM

I'm thinking I still have some open circuits with bad wiring to find. I do not have a FSM yet and I don't have a wiring diagram to look at, can someone in here throw any ideas my way on this? Thanks for all the help so far.

BTW, what is the relay on the firewall behind the under hood fuse block. The red lead coming out of the relay is TOAST! I need to find where that goes.
Image
Image
 
#2 ·
BTW, what is the relay on the firewall behind the under hood fuse block. The red lead coming out of the relay is TOAST! I need to find where that goes.
If it is the same as a Caprice it is the fuel pump relay.

Image


Keep a notebook of the codes and what repairs have been done.
Take the negative terminal off the battery to clear the codes then run the car to see if the codes come back and/or the stumble goes away.

It is not hard to check the TPS but you need a good digital meter or any analog (needle) meter to catch a "dead spot".
With a little care it is not hard to back probe the TPS.
If the TPS is normal the PCM checks and sets throttle closed voltage every key cycle.

Image


Check this active thread for some ideas:


Charm has some wiring and mechanical information:


It is much easier and in some cases mandatory to have live data from these cars.
I always recommend a live data scanner or Eehack.
Sometimes you need a oscilloscope.
 
#5 ·
Keep a notebook of the codes and what repairs have been done.
Take the negative terminal off the battery to clear the codes then run the car to see if the codes come back and/or the stumble goes away.
Since I have been using the CC screen as my diagnostic tool I have been using it to clear the DTCs. Yesterday I disconnected the battery when I was fiddling with the electric window switches. This morning I went for a drive. Like I said in a previous post, at cold start up and first drive the car runs great, no stutter or stumbling. Once it goes into closed loop it begins the stuttering and bucking, especially noticeable at a normal steady cruise speed. Today I tried something different when it started acting stupid, I disconnected the vacuum hose from the EGR valve. Instantly took care of the trouble I was having. After a 30 minute drive I checked the DTCs on the PCM and came up with 00. Car is super responsive(peel out mode) and runs nicely. No codes showing up, not exactly sure what I need to do about the EGR system. I've been riding with the vacuum line disconnected and plugged.

On another note, the CHARM site is fantastic. (y)
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thanks for the reply and TPS tips and the heads up on the active FP thread.
EDIT: Is that AutoXRay 3000 something I should consider since I don't have a laptop handy?
I found the female end of the chewed red wire on the inner fender when I first started working on the car a few weeks ago. My '94 9C1 doesn't have the FP relay on that stud, there is a ground strap on it.

Funny when you mentioned CHARM I was actually already on that page diagnosing DTC 18. I'm thinking I'll find some more open wiring before this is over with.
Haven't had time to do anything on the engine diagnostics since I posted. I spent most of the evening getting the windows going up and down again with new window clips.
This is going to be a nice sled when I get it ironed out. (y)
 
#4 · (Edited)
Yes, you absolutely need a scanner to monitor live data so you can see what's sending bad data to the PCM. I LOVE EEHack - makes diagnosis a breeze. Go find a cheap used Dell business laptop on Ebay and buy the cable and you're good to go. More guidance here.
 
#6 ·
Your next step is to get EEHack or a scan tool and monitor the commanded EGR duty cycle. See if the PCM is commanding it once it goes into closed loop.

On a side note, I've seen on more than one occasion someone has directly connected a vacuum line to the EGR valve. At cold start high idle, the symptom is masked, but once the car warms up, you get a definite rough idle.

Finally, for anyone reading this and looking to disable EGR, it is important to disconnect the EGR solenoid electrical connector, or disable EGR in the PCM calibration, otherwise the PCM will try to enable it, add 5 degrees of spark advance, and the rod bearings will suffer.