[Guest]

Well, I finally decide go with the 227 based mostly on your tried & true experience and now you go do this!

Hell, I don't want to wait another season, year to get the valuable info to help make a decision.

You and Stonebreaker have convinced me. That and my now limited funds.

I ordered a 3000 stall Edge TC. Delivered today according to UPS tracking!

The 3.73 are in. Tri's & Hooker catback on.

RAISS upfront. Plus all the other little stuff.

Got a 14.2 @ 96 on street tires. Which still ISN'T posted on the ET Page. I won't hold it against you. Looks like your kinda busy. Probably was my sorry ass MS Express Outlook anyway. I'm gonna email you w/ the scanned slip attached via my Yahoo account.

Next planned mods will be the 227, or as you have apptly named it the "Mircale Cam". The CM 1.6 RR & Springs kit. New harden pushrods, lifters and timing chain. Some March pullies and a Mezier H2O pump.

This should meet my goals.

Once again, thanks a ton for sharing all of your gained knowledge with the BBody community.

It's guys like you, Stone and Autocrosser who have help many forum members save $, time and avoid mental anquish.

Maybe I'll get to see you run up @ Cecil and/or MIR next season. I've only seen your ride once @ MIR. You where kinda busy. Busy whoopin some bracket racing ass for me to introduce myself.

Keep on keeping.

Lance.

P.S. VA is for Lovers and we do it better

 

[Guest]

Karl -

So, w/ 1.6's the Crane 104227 = a .510"/.553" lift @ valve.

The Crane 109831 w/ 1.6's = a .543"/.563" lift @ the valve.

Will the 831 cam be too much for stock heads?

Also, Crane's webpage claims a range of 75 - 100 hp for 831. True?

What would be the hp range for the 227?

Thanks.

Lance.

 

[Guest]

Hey there Lance. I'm 99% sure that the 109831 cam would be too much for stock heads, (but not too much if the heads were machined for larger diameter valve springs and different oil seals so that the valve won't hit the retainer.

I don't know the power made from either cam. All these combos are all different, stock heads, ported heads...
But the 846 cam is "bigger" so it should make more power torque. But maybe not. We'll see.

I just took the first street test run on the new combo. It runs quite fine overall. It does not feel as strong as my 383 combo. Seat of the pants is that it only feels as strong as the 227cam combo. Well...bummer. But that's seat of the pants and usually I have nailed the butt-o-meter predictions exactly with every combo change. (feels like 12.2.....run a 12.2 at the track) (This feels like a 12.9 actually) So I hope I'm pleasanty suprised and it actually goes quicker.

Turns out I made another very time consuming mistake on this motor install. Long story short, I never put in the rear main seal. bla.
So guess when I realized that....after the whole combo was buttoned up, tranny intalled, 1st test up on jack stands...oil leaking like crazy from the rear. Took me 3 hours to recover from that.

Other than that this cam really is rumpity. It sounds good if you have the idle set for 850rpm I upped it to 950 and it's much smoother between park and drive.

The shaft rockers are AWESOME! The are so quiet! I set the lash just prior to installing the motor a few days ago and I won't even have to pull the valve covers for a re-adjustment. The sound so quiet...compared to all my other roller rockers.

I took a MD state Trooper friend along with me on the maiden voyage and he Loved the ride. Even though we got up past the speed limit for a few moments.

Karl

Photo of what you don't want to see after pulling the tranny and removing the flexplate...
(engine is more red than the photo...for some reason my camera makes it look purplish.)

 

[Guest]

Damn!

It's always the little stuff that gets you.

Thanks for the reply. From what I gathered, I'll stay with and be more than satistfied with 227.

Lance.

 

[Guest]

Yea Lance, I think the 227 cam would be best if matched up with stock or mildy ported heads.
Karl

 

[Guest]

Karl, thats a minor mistake compared to what I did last spring. I hope the new combo treats you well at the track.

 

[Guest]

Hey Mike, remind me, what was it you did? If it's not too painfull to bring up again.
Karl

 

[Guest]

Looks like you and Fred are trying the same Cam.
This will be an interesting season. Freds 846 was rumpity as well. Sounded good.

The 846 is slightly larger then the 845 Hot Cam.
So performance comparisons between your beloved 227 and 846 will be interesting.

MHO is that the 846 will have a much better top end then your 227 or even a Hot Cam for that matter. Especially after you get your new tune in.

Would expectlow torque to be about the same. The key will be you mph.

Dan

 

[Guest]

Feb. 1st in Fayetteville, we will find out. I purposfully put the Vigilante converter back in so I could have a direct comparison between that old 227 combo and his one. The vigi is noticably looser on the street than the PY3600. But the Vigi is a 5 disc lockup and it get's manually locked down track at about the 1000' .

 

[Guest]

Karl, I'll tell you next time I see you in person...just remind me. A bit too embarassing to say it on here.

 

[Guest]

Hey Karl,

I am not sure that I saw the ratio for the new rocker system. Is it 1.6 or 1.5?

It dawned on me that I missed another chance to beat you last month at at ATCO; I was the the next pair after you broke. Heads up, a break would be my only chance to pass you!

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Mike454SS:
Karl, I'll tell you next time I see you in person...just remind me. A bit too embarassing to say it on here.

I cant tell you it wasnt embarassing, but I will tell you it was an honest mistake, and anybody could have done it.... All i have to say is it runs good now so who cares!

 

[Guest]

Hey Boe-Boe, One day our luck will change and then I'll never ever beat you in a race.

I may have posted on my web site the wrong ratios, maybe they are correct. But I keep getting my Crane and T&D shaft systems mixed up in my head. The Cranes are 1.6 in, 1.55 Ex and they are going to go on my 383 next time I put it in.

The T&D that are in the 350 right now, with the 846 cam are 1.6 all around. And the shaft system sure makes the rockers whisper quiet. I mean very very quiet.

I think I have not gained any on my 227 set up. This set up feels only even with the 227. And as I look in DeskTop Dyno 2000, the 227 cam makes more low end torque and actually give my theoretical set up a tad better ET. (silly me....didn't even think to study this set up in DD2000 before doing the swap).
karl

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Jons4door:
I cant tell you it wasnt embarassing, but I will tell you it was an honest mistake, and anybody could have done it.... All i have to say is it runs good now so who cares!

if it's an honest mistake and anybody could do it, then tell us what it is so nobody ele does it.

 

[Guest]

Randy Acorcey used several cams a few years ago (gradual progression from stock to hot), and he posted his comments on the 846. IIRC he said that it (a) made great power (as it should) but that (b) it probably wouldn't meet smog (my guess from too much overlap) when used in a 350. I suppose it also depends on who is doing the PCM work. If it was Batman, well then it might meet smog. If it was anyone else, maybe not.

Batman is a euphemism, coined by Mike454, for a neighbor/guru in many automotive things who seldom posts to avoid dealing with newbie_noise and people that don't_do_their_homework, so we keep his true identity secret.

I think Randy posted that info on the old NAISSO digest. Not sure if it propagated onto the web. Not sure if Randy remembers this either.... he's getting rather long in the tooth. <g>

HTH. - Ken, also a Member of the Grumpy Old Bastard Club (GOBC)

 

[Guest]

I don't think Karl has smog testing in his neck of the woods

 

[Guest]

YEAH its called New Clear Radiation (GWB 2000 campaign)

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Karl Ellwein:
I think I have not gained any on my 227 set up. This set up feels only even with the 227. And as I look in DeskTop Dyno 2000, the 227 cam makes more low end torque and actually give my theoretical set up a tad better ET. (silly me....didn't even think to study this set up in DD2000 before doing the swap).
karl

Karl,

If you're already even with the 227 with just the initial tune, then you may ultimately be a tenth or two faster with the 846/831. Since the 831 has a smaller difference between the intake and exhaust duration than the 227, you may find some horsepower going to exhaust cutouts. Run your DD2000 simulation again, this time using the open exhaust option for both cams. This is just a WAG on my part, but would certainly be an easy adjustment to make. And you could always put electric cutouts on the car for Friday nights at MIR .

 

[Guest]

PS - Send me the DD2000 file along with your head flow numbers and I'll see what I come up with. Send it to sstonebreaker@charter.net.

 

[Guest]

Hey Stonebuddy. I'll send you the cam files and the drag car set up file and the head flow file.
I compared the 227 to the 846 in every configuration and the 227 won em all.
What it is for the 227 is the huge low-mid torque. The 846 does give 1mph better trap but still about .02 seconds slower et. note that that is only .02 seconds. So it's not going to be very noticable.

Make sure to load in the 2 cam files I have for the cams. I punched in all the info from the cam cards. The heads are best guess of course.

Karl