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Discussion starter · #22 ·
Aren't those " just" some rotors the seller cut the rotor off ?
They are cast iron, I am pretty sure he doesn't have a foundry up and running.
That could be, in which case the flange offset would be wrong by 1/2" (for a total of 1" for both sides). So it would require a rotor hat that has an extra 1/2" offset. I'm waiting for the seller to get back to me.
 
To add, he also shows longer wheel studs. Probably another 20 bucks and shipping is probably about the same in there.
So figure he's getting about 75 per hub for his labor to machine them. Seems pretty reasonable.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Also, the wheel mounting hub looks machined differently. I'm wondering if he also machines the flange down to account for the presence of a rotor hat. Considering the machining work involved, $300 is pretty decent for the pair. If the flange offset is correct, it could be a great "budget" option over the KORE3 hubs.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Oh I thought it was a totally valid observation. I mean, cast iron kinda negates some of the unsprung weight savings. But yeah, my big roadblock to including "stock hubs with rotors cut off" as an option is that very few DIY'ers have easy access to the tools needed to accomplish that. I've been perusing Facebook Marketplace for over a year hoping to find a brake lathe at a reasonable price in my area, and I keep not succeeding. And my local machine shop charges an arm and a leg for super simple jobs, so I tend not to go there.
 
Random side note - Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawks (with the SRT hellcat motor) have large rotors with a 5x5 bolt pattern. Way too big for a 15" or even an Impala SS 17" wheel though.
 
Discussion starter · #28 · (Edited)
I just updated the original post to include information on cast iron hubs that are much more affordable than the KORE3 billet aluminum hubs.

Currently, prices for putting together a complete would look like this:

Cast iron hubs with street rotors
2x hats = $202
1x rotor set = $280
1x hardware set = $25
2x J55 calipers = $40 (at RockAuto)
1x pads = $30 (at RockAuto)
1x hub set = $300

Total = $877
(does not take into account shipping costs, taxes, or refundable core charges)

That's pretty darn decent for fade-free brakes that will fit inside any OEM 15" wheels. From there, you can tune the cost to match the desired performance with the optional upgrades listed.

I can attest to this; the race rotors on billet aluminum hubs are unstoppable. With affordable Performance Friction pads, I can lock up the front brakes anytime by pressing hard enough on the pedal, I get excellent modulation, and the brakes never fade. With Wilwood BP20 pads, the initial bite is stronger, but all the rest of the characteristics remain (with added squealing and dusting, as expected). I'm never going back to stock brakes.
 
Just to clarify a bit here:

All TCE kits since day one have been 13 x 1.25" never once have I provided a 1" rotor. There have also been some 1.375" wide rotors provided for guys who ran open track days with the cars. I might point out also that this goes back to 1997. I hear from one of my first customers from time to time who (with some 300K miles on the car) still is happy with his purchase. I think he's replaced rotors a couple of times.

The original and standard stuff for the SS today is still a custom Coleman rotor and will remain that way for some time. The reason is matching to the rear kit- everyone likes a matchy-matchy look. We do now offer a front kit that could be used on the SS with an off the shelf Wilwood (not Wildwood) part. That's great for saving a few bucks on 'rings' but I get negative feedback when they are paired with our custom rear rotor for visual reasons. All of that could be changed a bit in the future. But really; why complicate a good thing? And they've all been tried and proven to be very effective on both the street and open track. Our standard 'ring' for that kit today will run you about $250ea from me or from Coleman (D&S). The 13" Wilwood rotor (D&S) runs about $330ea. But replacements, when properly cared for, are very few and far between.

There are a few reasons to retain the TCE standard: first is keeping it consistent. All TCE kits fit the stock wheels. The "optional" format won't do that if I recall. Also back when we began this build a 13" rotor was unheard of and some parts used were what was on the market for 11.75 and 12.2 rotors at that time. Far more popular. For that reason the hats, their spec, the brackets and calipers are almost identical to the first kits. Now some 1000 units deep in sales.

Another change is the move to larger kits. Let's be honest here....not a lot of guys today keep the stock 17" wheel. We dabbled a bit in 14" kits for 18" wheels. But that wheel market (like 16s) didn't stick around long. Today is 13" for stock, 15 and 16" kit for the primary market. Seldom much demand for 14 but I'd do one custom if so desired. The few we did were BSL6 parts and that's just not the real deal, today it would be an Aerolite model.

Cost? Today it's Black or Red with drilled and slotted rotors for $2049 plus shipping- and all those items you're looking at are included by default. Thinking back now some 25+ years I think it was abou $1400. And more for D&S. Powder coat was not even a thing! lol I think we've done a pretty damn good job on costing this today. The calipers are better, the pads are better, color is standard, zinc plated D&S rotor by default.....It's all a better value Today than it was Then really.

I have nothing against those who may be trying to redesign the wheel here....people can poor over options and figure out what might work and how. Or you can just bite the bullet and drive it completed in a week and forget about all the what-ifs.

TC

*Corrected rotor prices to both be drilled and slotted.
**Slotted only rotors are also an option.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Just to clarify a bit here:

All TCE kits since day one have been 13 x 1.25" never once have I provided a 1" rotor.
Thank you for that clarification! I thought I had looked it up on the site before posting that those rotors were 13"x1", but I must not have looked very hard because it's clearly stated there.

Not dismissing TCE brakes at all, those are some serious kits. This is just intended as an upgrade that bolts on quickly, doesn't change front/rear bias, and fits in stock 15" wheels. Exactly the same spirit as NavyLifer's original concept from a decade or so ago.

Sorry about that one misspelling that my phone introduced when I swiped "Wilwood" 🙄
 
Hey I googled the hardware part number and not coming up with anything…there’s one similar. Just trying to get my ducks in a row for my shopping cart
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Hey I googled the hardware part number and not coming up with anything…there’s one similar. Just trying to get my ducks in a row for my shopping cart
Which specific hardware are you referring to? If it's been discontinued, I'm sure I can figure out a replacement.
 
For those frustrated the excellent HD12 kits are no longer available, recently I have been working on an alternate way to mount common C3 12”x1.25” rotors, combined with off the shelf pads, common Timken bearings and OEM hub seals for our cars at a reasonably sane total cost.
Rekudo is offering a range of options that solves several important concerns simultaneously.

1 inch taller chromoly spindle uprights @ $385/pr., ‘one-inch-drop’ spindle location, C3 4140 billet hubs @ $220 ea., forged 7075 4-piston JL8 calipers @ ~$870/pr., off the shelf rotors, pads, bearings, seals, 1.820”x4 pistons. One thing is that these calipers functionally replicate the old rust-prone Delco Morraine cast iron calipers for this application, but Holley (who now owns Rekudo) claims that the mounting ears are C5/C6 Vette, which means multiple larger superior rotor and caliper options may coexist on the same upright. I would like to have that assertion validated by Rekudo directly. But still, if all the Rekudo stuff is combined you can get better suspension geometry, handling, braking performance, looks like a win/win.

Still trying to figure out an equivalent compatible matching rear disc setup for my 1995 RMW, thinking that it seems to be similar to 1980s era C-10/20 pickups in the rear regarding backing plate bolt pattern and flange offset.

Just requires the 4.75” BC up front, but then 15x8” Vette wheels fit perfectly, and so do a multitude of other muscle car wheels will also work.
Over 40 years ago I figured out how to mount 12”x1.250” Coleman discs on modified iron hubs to use the JL9 truck calipers with their 3 5/32” pistons, but every part was custom made, I couldn’t even afford standard NASCAR brake components at the time, I got tired of adapting and custom fabricating every part every time.
 
Was going great for me until you said drop spindle ;)

JL8 replicas, I hope not the seal on piston

Think you will find the wagon a unique shallow stand off dimension.
They are so shallow that C locks are impossible to get in with a proper park brake.
I came up with an interesting workaround that became heart of Bill Harpers kits.

My current diff I lopped the ends and went to set 80 bearings and the car stand off
 
I see they are more " looks like JL8 "
conventional piston seal type.

Interesting note they have with their knuckles.

" The use of factory stock control arms will result in too much static positive camber. "

Trying to get the higher upper ball joint away from 15 " rim or wanting shorter arc up top for even more camber gain ?
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I'm vaguely familiar with JL8 calipers, but I never really looked into them.

It looks like they require C3 spindles, which have different caliper mounting ears than B-body 12" brake spindles. So these could ONLY bolt to retrofitted Rekudo spindles?
 
Rekudo originally were trying to replicate the extremely rare HD JL8 brake option available on race Camaros and Corvettes, in 68/69, I think like only 200 were ever produced. It might be possible to adapt some of these new parts into a regular upright, but for me, the point of all of this is to end up with an affordable way to improve handling, durability, and stopping performance on cars that share the 70-81 F-body front suspension, which includes our 77-96 B-bodies (among many other models). I’m not sure, but the C3 Vette hubs may be exactly the same fitment dimensionally as these new parts.

The parts they have produced seem to be made very well, forged 7075 calipers with pad abutment inserts, billet 4140 hubs, optional upper and lower control arms that address geometry.

The notable thing that caught my attention was the ChroMoly extra tall spindles, hubs, calipers, C5/C6 caliper mounting compatibility, larger Timken bearings, and providing for “off the shelf” pads and rotors that allow readily available 1.250” thick x 12” rotors that nest into OEM 15” wheels. (Note: the C5/C6 caliper mounting compatibility was a verbal statement from Holley Tech, so not sure that’s true)

Obviously it's going to be 5 on 4.75” BC, with no ABS, but for those who aren't averse to living with those two facts it’s an intriguing option. On the Rekudo (Holley) website, you can see the full range of new parts with descriptions, they even offer new matching dust shields. There are pieces here being offered that have been around only a couple years, so this is a new group of braking, suspension and steering solutions for our consideration. The core of the kit is a pair of spindles at $386/pair and 4041 hubs $220 each.
 
Should be noted the original JL8 camaro option and the Corvette brakes they were based on were worlds apart from other brake options , AT THE TIME .

The actual Moraine calipers used were nightmare because the seal was on the piston riding in the caliper bore as opposed to in the caliper with the piston riding on it.
One scratch , one pit in the bore,and they leaked.

Everyone knows at least one 60-70 vette owner with a horror story !

The calipers imho were complete junk.
My understanding was thier design was to circumvent someones patent .Lockheed , Girling maybe.? This may be an old wives tail

The remakes spoke about above address these issues but I do question the choice unless someone is going " retro"

Fixed calipers on c lock diffs aren't for everyone.
Yes there are selective C locks but posi wear turns that into maintenance.
I found the " squishy " carbon clutches an issue and pedal was improved with steels.
That and a residual valve.
 
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