You can get a 6.0 for the same price as a 5.3 at the PNP yard, and you can run your 4L60E behind it. In the local yards here, you can get a complete 6.0 with wiring harness, and computer for less than $700. You will need the computer for the 6.0, but it will run the 4L60E with programming. Since you are considering a cam change, you will be doing some programming anyway. Put at least 3.23 gears in it, and a posi. You may have to get a different housing for the higher numerical ratio. Get a 2500 RPM stall converter, and you will take advantage of the higher revving LS. You will probably need a higher pressure fuel pump for the LS, although the pump may fit the sending unit.


The 6.0 should get you decent gas mileage. Most of the difference is your foot.


The difference between installing an LT1 and an LS unit is not that much. You are going to need a crossmember, and the exhausts may be more different than you think. You should replace the engine mounts no matter what, so a change to the LS adapters is not a stretch. In the long run, you will have a lot less maintenance on the LS than either the conventional small block, or the LT1.

 

There's a thought Fred, I hadn't considered using the LT1 4L60e behind an LS.

For me, one of the advantages of the LS series engines is their lighter weight (in aluminum). While iron 6.0s can be had for similar prices to 5.3s, aluminum 6.0s (predominantly LS2s and L76s) fetch a significant premium (around here at least) over aluminum 5.3s.

It's been my experience that the 6.0s won't do better than 22mpg, no matter how they're geared (that's all my G8 will do with a 2.92 rear, commuting 140 highway miles per day). I can manage 28 out of the LT1 (tuning, warm-air intake, LS injectors, T56 and aero mods, on 10% ethanol.) I'm hoping a 5.3 can achieve similar numbers but with a bit more power, better reliability, and less weight.

Are you thinking perhaps an Iron 6.0 will hold more heat in the engine for better efficiency? If this '87 weren't so clean I'd have no qualms about hacking it up for a T56, but I can't bring myself to start cutting on it.

 

An iron block with aluminum heads weighs about 50lbs. more than the aluminum block engine...big deal. I put a 454 BBC with aluminum heads and water pump in my wagon, and the car probably weighs about 50 lbs. more than it did with an all iron 350.


The LQ9 (6.0 iron block) in most trucks is making over 300 HP without doing anything to it. They are getting really easy to find, and are cheap.


The mileage you get is going to depend more on the HP you produce than the displacement of the engine. It takes the same amount of gas to produce a given amount of HP, no matter what the displacement is. The only times you use noticeably more gas is at idle, and with high numerical gearing.


Make sure you get the FEAD from the donor so you do not have to find something that will give you all the accessories you need. It will also be a serpentine belt drive, making it simple, because you can use the factory size belt originally found on the donor. The truck FEAD works well in B-body cars, except for the AC bracket, and there are a number of threads on how to massage it to work without cutting the frame.

 

An iron block with aluminum heads weighs about 50lbs. more than the aluminum block engine...big deal.

Have you personally verified this? I find 50lbs hard to believe, but I've never physically verified it.

 

Ok, so I started digging for weights. Over on the popular LS1 forum they've weighed the different combinations, and the results are eye-opening. Suddenly the LS motor doesn't have a clear advantage at lower power-levels. (except for reliability, of course) These weights include everything (PCM/harness/coils, etc) EXCEPT alt/ps/ac.


SBC (iron heads): 399 lbs
SBC (alum heads): 359 lbs

LT1 (iron heads): 422 lbs
LT1 (alum heads): 382 lbs

LS (iron/iron): 495 lbs
LS (iron/alum): 455 lbs
LS (alum/alum): 355 lbs

Yikes! If these values are to be believed, then a gen-1 350 with aluminum heads, intake, and water pump is within 4 pounds of an all-aluminum LS1. I can post a link to the spreadsheet if that's permissible.

 

...Yikes! If these values are to be believed...

I'm not sure I believe those figures, but regardless, you'd also need to figure in the additional weight of the iron or aluminum intake on the SBC. The nylon intake on the LS is noticeably lighter.

The LS blocks do have a deeper skirt and the heads are a bit taller, but I doubt that adds up to a 100 pounds more weight. Especially since weight optimization is a huge deal now for the manufacturers.

 

I'm a bit surprised to see that an LQ style motor weighs more than our LT1s. But the 100lbs in block difference is more believable to me than 50. I actually assumed I lost a lot more than 75lbs by switching to an aluminum block. That's slightly disheartening. But ultimately the decision for me was made based on reliability and ease of making power. Both of which the LS series won out on hands down. I have a pretty close to stock motor making 420 compared to the LT series that would have had to spin pretty high or have very expensive heads to make that kind of power. Neither of which has shown time over to be reliable. If you're staying stockish, I think getting a JY LT motor is the way to go. You can buy running motors for $500.

 

Yeah I have to agree, I thought the LS would be the way to go here, but having a donor 9C1 clouds the issue. If I was looking for something in the 350RWHP range or above, I think the LS-motor becomes a no-brainer. And 75lbs off the nose is nothing to sneeze at.


And a carbureted 350 crate-motor, while certainly the simplest "swap", will grenade the 200-4r and 7.5" rear. So I'd still have to swap over the 9C1's 4L60e and 8.5" rear, which then requires a standalone controller. Or a built 700r4. More $$.


It appears the 9C1s complete drivetrain-swap is the winner here. It already has a built 4L60e and True-Trac rear. That leaves rebuilding the bottom-end of the old LT1. I don't really trust anything out of the local PNPs, I put about 40k a year on my daily, and it needs to hold up over time.


With an eye towards mpg, and driveability on a stock converter, I'll probably just freshen the 180k iron heads, and a cam in the 205/215 range. Not revving beyond 5500.


I see Golen does a cast 383, their cheapest offering, at $3300. Has their reputation improved with time?


Ellwein-engines also builds a budget 383 for $3600, and a 355 for $3500. I have about $5k total budget, which leaves $1500 for various swap-related items that will come up (exhaust, cooling, etc).

 

......I see Golen does a cast 383, their cheapest offering, at $3300. Has their reputation improved with time?......

Budget LT1 383 Dish short block

Nuff said.

KW

 

If you are going to redo the LT1, hone it and put rings in it while you have it apart.

 

Seriously doubt 350 hp will destroy a 200-4R. Grand Nationals came with those transmissions too.Just have to properly set the tv cable.

 

Seriously doubt 350 hp will destroy a 200-4R.
Grand Nationals came with those transmissions too.Just have to properly set the tv cable.

350 horse won't kill a 200 but 350 horse AND 4000 lb car will.
Keep in mind 200s were originally designed for the Chevette.

Nab

 

I personally wouldn't run a Golen motor in my car. Seen them blow up too many times.

 

Golen short blocks are actually a great value.
They got a bad rep b/c of incorrectly installed oil pump/pick ups
(usually by the installer) that caused motor failure.
Oil pump pickups should either be bolted on w/ a retainer or
welded AND bolted on w/ a retainer. It's been a bad deal from GM forever.
I got a Golen motor in an SS I bought, rocked it in the Blue Wail for a few years,
then sold the motor for a few grand- ran great!

Nab

 

Ok, so Golen apparently still has some issues. I wasn't aware.

The 200-4r from the GNs and SS Montes was a good unit. The 200 found in the other vehicles requires a fairly stout build to be acceptable, unfortunately. $$. They are better than a 700 once built though, with lower weight, and better 1st gear and overdrive ratios.

The square-bodies from this era also have a notoriously weak drive shaft and rear. Even the 9C1 boxes were torque challenged.

Fred, I hear you. I think I'm going to leave it to the pros, I'll probably send the longblock off to Karl for a refresh.

I think it's time to migrate to the "build" section of the forum. I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for all your input!

 

It's a 200 behind the Chevy 305? I thought they all got the 700 while the 307 (and 260) Olds got the 200...? So this means your 200 has the dual bolt pattern? I might be interested in buying that little sucker, when and if you choose to get rid of it.

 

I can't speak for all the different box-bodies, but this is definitely a 200 looking at the pan. If I had the cash for a custom-driveshaft and a 200 build ($1500 is the cheapest reputable build I can find), I'd keep it in there and just swap the 7.5 rear out. The 200's 1-2 shift has a lot less rpm-drop, which fills in that "dead-spot" these 700s have.

I'll keep you in mind when I pull it.

 

Im a big fan of the ltx... partially because its a pretty motor and the other part because I love being the under dog and still kickin ass...

ltx it!!!

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

 

Im a big fan of the ltx... partially because its a pretty motor

Thank you!
With an LS motor, I just don't know if I could ever open my hood

 

For the effort to convert to a newer platform port injected engine, I would do the LS. It's just a better engine and easier make more power later on if you want.

 

Well, I'm running into an issue. I can't swing the $3000+ for just a short-block. Just simply isn't on the table.

I've found a few boneyard camaro LT1s with high miles in questionable condition, but I've got a bead on a low-mileage LT4 from a 96 vette, complete with accessories.

Is there any reason I can't swap the Bette LT4 into the 87 as easily as the B-body LT1? Complete with the Vette accessory drive? In theory, due to it's driver-side high AC compressor mount, I shouldn't have to notch the frame or address the shifted pass-side motor-mount location right?

Or would it be simpler to swap the B-body accessory drive onto the LT4?