I mean I agree with them as that will be the most bang for your buck.
By other things you mean what exactly? If by a trans rebuild then yes. A procharger is going to need a tune anyways.

 

I am at work, so I will throw out some quick bullet points (in no order):
Even with low boost, the LT1 should have (at least) forged pistons with a supercharger. You will also damage the transmission if you are making any power - budget for a transmission rebuild. So much nickel and dime with a supercharger (aftermarket ignition, extra fuel (injectors and pump), PCM tuning, etc, etc. When the blower is not as fast as what you hoped, you will eventually do the heads and cam too.
Also, the supercharger gains are not worth the money spent. You can get similar performance and have a much more reliable set up by building a mild 383.

Ask your shop to show you a timeslip for an LT1 car they have supercharged. Ask them who tuned the PCM for the blower. Also ask how much it costed when they were done.
By the way, the only surviving "Procharger" kit is for an F-Body and is not a direct fit for the Impala. It can be made to work, but not cheaply.

I am not a hater. Centrifugals have advantages, and can be done well, but don't think of them as the cheap way to power.
Nitrous is the cheapest way to power, but again, you need forged pistons, so why not do a mild 383...
I love centrifugals, but I totally overestimated what the blower would do for me on a stock car (when I first put it on in 1995). It also cost me about $6,000 to install my first Vortech blower in 1995. The car was quick, but not spectacular.

It is still not done yet, but this is my latest incarnation of the car circa 2022 (I am now using a Rocky Mountain Competitive Research kit):

 

Yes i know about the transmission .. my Initial thought was going with a 383 but this was their advice to get a procharger.. and what I mean by other things is won’t I need to rebuild the engine down the line anyways if I go with a pro charger? .. how long can a stock LT1 and pretty much stock everything car last with the procharger ?

 

With stock hypereutectic pistons, the tune on a supercharged car becomes critical. Your car could last for one WOT run if you experience detonation on a poor tune. Or, if you go low boost and have a spot on tune, you could go 50,000 miles before you do damage.
My real point is that you are doing things backwards. First you install forged pistons, and then you supercharge it.
If your performance shop was any good at all, they would be advising you similarly.

That said, I did things backwards too. I bought a 94 Impala and with a cat back exhaust and cold air intake it was running a best of 14.7 in the 1/4 mile. Having limited funds and looking for more speed, I discussed centrifugal blowers with my mechanic. He warned me we would always be limited by the pistons, and that a 383 was the best way to start. The initial buy in of the blower seemed lower, and I had an unrealistic, ignorant, and romanticized ideas of what a blower would do for me.
When my car was only 6 months old, I bought a Vortech supercharger kit for the car. It costed $3,500 and was made for the LT1 Corvette. By the time my mechanic changed the accessories to the Vette side, fitted the blower on the car, added fuel injectors, a booster fuel pump, PCM tune, headers, etc. my bill was up to $6,000 in total.
For $6,000 my car now ran a 13.7 1/4 mile, but every time I drove it, I had to wonder; is today the day that I will crack a piston?

At the same time, my mechanic had another 65 year old Impala owner who raced his whole life. He opted to skip the supercharger and build the engine in his new Impala with forged pistons, forged crank, and an aftermarket heads and cam package. His engine cost him $6,800 in total. For $800 more, this guy ran a 13.0 flat 1/4 mile and never spent a minute worrying about if his engine was going to hold together. In fact a year later he added a wet nitrous kit and got down to a 12.00 flat 1/4 mile.

I spent the next year try to go faster. Constant pcm tunes, 3 additional fuel injectors on the throttle body, smaller supercharger pulley that made more boost, but the added heat made the boost badly inefficient, etc. I eventually had to “build” my engine to make any good use of the centrifugal supercharger.

Now days, a decent gen2 LT1 build is close to $10,000. I know that is a lot of money. Truthfully you could buy a lot of newer used cars that will beat a 13 second 1/4 mile for near the cost of your Impala (with a $10K engine build). However if you love your Impala and you must make it faster, I urge you to bite the bullet and build the engine. A supercharger on a stock motor seems cheaper, but it is not cheaper in the end. And, we didn’t even discuss the costs of rebuilding the engine if the supercharger does crack a piston. If the motor can be saved at all; that is a very expensive rebuild...

 

Depends on how you drive it and how it has been taken care of imo

Procharger is not my favorite means of boost and nsaness is right it will be nickle and dimey.

 

And another thing
If you are stubborn or are dying to waste thousands of dollars, I do have the corvette accessories bracket and my old Vortech V1 A trim supercharger still taking up space in my garage.
The problems are many: the worst issue is that my supercharger bracket is cracked in half and unusable. It could be used to measure and machine a new one, but I did not think that option was worth the time or money.
The other problems is that the supercharger is fine and runs, but the A trim is old technology. I would use the Vortech exchange program and trade my blower for the core charge.
This is what that old set up would look like:

 

I'd do it in stages.

Start with the rear gears. 3.73s or 4.10s since your running bigger wheels. Idk much about autos but many combine the rear gears with a good stall converter and end up leaving it at that.

Then headers and cat back. Do it once correctly with the CIA setup.

Then if at that point it isn't enough then you start with the motor. 383 seems to be the most tried and tested setup

 

I was thinking Heads, 1.6 RR, Valve springs , Cam, Torque Converter , 3.73 with posi, headers, and tune ...

Top it off with a 2.50" cat-back exhaust with muffs & resonators of your choice, and you're either done with performance mods, or you'll have the backbone for more serious performance mods.
3.73 might also need a driveshaft upgrade; 4.10 definitely will.

In other words, do these regardless.
Maybe think about brake steering & suspension upgrades before more powertrain?

A 383 is a better investment than a supercharger, especially if it lacks any kind of cooler.

 

I would follow toonwarrior and Marky Dissods most recent posts. If you start with these things, you might have enough to make you happy until the motor dies of natural causes. At that point, build your forged motor. If that's still not enough turbo, LS swap, or supercharge it.

 

And my suspension and steering is pretty much all new , so going to get into the brakes and rear end and the motor next

 

One point, and two suggestions:
When I was at the ISSCA Nationals in 2020, every serious Impala there was a normally aspirated stroker LT1, and/or with nitrous. Only one blower car, one turbo car, and very few LS swaps. That tells you something.

1. Cheap motor source: I'm currently building a car, and I bought a used stroker motor off of a guy doing an LS swap. It wasn't pennies, but it sure isn't 10K. Get on the Facebook groups and you'll find stuff.
2. If you want to build it yourself, consider Skip White's rotating assemblies. Pre-balanced and a good deal.

 

If you want to build it yourself, consider Skip White's rotating assemblies. Pre-balanced and a good deal.

Even without any of the very reasonably priced optional upgrades detailed in the listings, these are great deals.

If for whatever reason your heart's set on forced induction, find a way to implement something like

New BMW M water injection system

The BMW M4 GTS is the first series-produced street vehicle to utilise an innovative and pioneering water injection system that further optimises the performance and consumption of the turbocharged six-cylinder inline engine, even at full performance capacity.

www.bmw-m.com

as insurance against detonation.

 

@sherlock9c1 That's pretty interesting. I am really surprised LS swaps were not more numerous.

I understand keeping the stock engine in the car but an LS swap is able to retain all functionality of the stock car and do everything the LT1 can but miles better. Just my opinion.

In budget terms though LT1 stroker is way better.

 

I think the reason the LS swaps are kind of rare is the level of difficulty. It's a lot easier to swap in a 383 with aluminum heads than make all the changes you need to put in an LS.

 

Good point and one that should not be taken lightly lol

 

Regarding supercharging the gen2 LT1, Greg Carroll and Carroll Supercharging is where I learned a lot in 1994. Here is a good summary of supercharging, and it includes an excellent water injection system too. I can vouch for all of these parts including the water injection.

http://www.blowerworks.net/download/C4WHITEPAPER_2.pdf

 

As far as the water/meth injection thing goes, Alky Control is second to none. They use your windshield washer tank for the methanol tank. My vette's currently running this setup with a 50/50 water/methanol mix. The 50/50 mix is the most effective for detonation resistance, although you give up a few ponies compared to 100% meth injection.

 

You can still use your windshield wiper fluid too! Just gotta get the -40 fluid iirc.

 

If you are in search of HP, a 454 will fit in the engine bay without too much difficulty. You can build a good 454, with a Sniper EFI, and put a hot cam in it for about $6500. You will need a trans build, but you already need that anyway. You could even use the fuel injection from a 96-2000 truck that comes with a Gen VI engine. You still need a tune, but you need that as well for any other option. Pulling a complete 454 from a p-n-p yard should cost about $600-700 to start with. The Gen VI heads are a good design, and the only thing that would make them better is aluminum ones. I am currently working on a replacement engine for my 91 OCC, and other than the fuel injection and ignition system, I have about $3800 in it. The only things I used over are the fuel injection system, timing set, rocker arms, valve springs, pushrods, and harmonic balancer. I even put a new set of Speedmaster aluminum heads (saved 75 lbs) with Ferra valves on it. It was a nice engine, and I could have skipped the machine shop ($450), honed it, and put standard size pistons in it instead of the -20 cc 30 over pistons. I should have over 500 HP on pump gas.

You would need a fatter radiator, new fans (maybe), and headers (shortys are good). I used FEAD brackets from a 93 FW (left), and 92 C10 (right) with adapters by Kwik. They may have adapters for LT1 FEAD brackets to the 454. My original install cost me about $5K without the fuel injection system, and I made a number of mistakes that cost me about $1000..

 

As for BMW being first, Google Cutlass Jetfire


My two bits on mech supercharging an LT1 in a B body .

Research BB Chev crank snout .
The LT1 in these cars, the accessory drive is so far forward , the added leverage from a blower , I am surprised they run at all.
Sure there are cars out there, but just step back and really look at the drive, the crank diameter, the amount of damper on crank snout,
I was recently involved with a steel crank -ATI damper LT1 that had the correct fit and a big Blower pulley .
Stripped the key at max boost.
I made an in car front pinning fixture but an confidant that all that did was ensure the crank will be destroyed when it works loose.
The interim is religious damper torque checks but , in my book it is a matter of when not if.
I don't think I would ever build a blower SB Chev with out a BB snout.
Just my opinion.

 

To support 95wagon's post, look at my snout overhang on the 10 rib pulley.

 

Before you go down this road, talk to Karl Ellwein about a proper LT1 build.

Several of his builds on the road and track. He has all the videos of the power his builds are putting out on his webpage. Most importantly, he builds them to last.

If you really have to have the blower, he can build you the best LT1 for it.

Do it right the first time.

ELLWEIN ENGINES

Check out this 630hp 385 LT1 build: 385 LT1

 

the only thing is I’m in Canada so shipping back and forth is going to be super costly.. or is it worth the extra shipping cost and just get it done right 🤔

 

Yes, I wholeheartedly second the Ellwein recommendation!!!
When I built my 396 I had been out of the Impala scene for a few years, so I wasn't up to speed on Ellwein. I would have used him if I had known, and I will be doing all future work there.

Some of the guys here can wrench themselves and pull off a budget build this or that. (I am not skilled like them)
If you don't have that skill either, then building something with Ellwein is money well spent.

 

Lots of good info in the thread thanks...

I think I’m leaning towards the 383 LT1 . What would be my best sources for the parts I need? The skipwhiteperformance assembly looks promising. He’s got Some bad google reviews tho not sure if that’s important ..

I read lots of good things about Lloyd Elliot as well

 

I think I’m leaning towards the 383 LT1 . What would be my best sources for the parts I need? The skipwhiteperformance assembly looks promising. He’s got Some bad google reviews tho not sure if that’s important ..

I read lots of good things about Lloyd Elliot as well

As of April 2022 as I write this, any place that has stuff in stock is a good place to get parts. I read all of SWP's google reviews and none of it really surprises me for a high volume shop, nor would it dissuade me from buying from them. It's a cost tradeoff for sure. I thought Karl Ellwein's prices were high until I started building engines myself, and now I think they're quite reasonable. Anybody can screw together an engine. To ensure that everything is done right? That takes cubic time and a lot of experience.

 

I would definitely check. One blunder with another route will end up costing more and end up in a dark pit of issues

For the blunders I went through for my setup I could have just went all out and bought the baddest to the bone off the shelf parts but here I am.

Just frustrating thinking about it...

 

If you still have doubts, check out his YouTube channel about all his builds...

Ellwein Engines - YouTube

 

I seem to recall people got crazy hp off stock bottom ends. Just replacing the heads with better units, a better cam shaft. Then throw some headers on it and a bigger exhaust. Tune it up and you should be making a bunch more power. This is the route I plan to take on my 80k mile engine. Not sure about adding other power to it. Reading this stuff makes me want to get an engine built just to get the BB snout to better support a supercharger. Although I wonder just how much of a concern that is with something like a Whipple 3L SC.

Guy I know makes kits for LS Engine to bolt just about any blower. He has done some modifications to an STS-V blower I have to put it on a CTS. That is a project in and of its self... But anyhow. We discussed the LT1 and I have a spare intake laying around. He is going to take that intake and remove the top of it and then we can build an adapter plate for it to mount one of his air-water intercoolers on top then his other stuff will just bolt on top. Would require someone welding the plate onto the top of the intake which shouldn't be a big deal. Last time I talked to him he told me it would be about $1000 plus a blower to make it all work. Reading this thread I almost want to try getting a motor done my Ellwin with the big block snout and an ATI balancer then try to line that up so the blower will fit. Thing is if we got a setup to work then anyone could do this to their LT1. Just need the intake modified and go from there.

He told me it would be easier if there was a high-ram or some sort of other aftermarket intake that wouldn't need machining. Then he can just make an adapter plate and away you go. A whipple 3.0L should support over 1000 hp.